Legion Lieutenants and Lieutenant Commanders

[Warp Entity]

Getting into some narrative play with the Heresy.

 

So we have models/rules/lore for Centurions and Praetors, and its pretty clear where they sit in the hierarchy.

 

What are people doing (if anything) for Lieutenants and Lieutenant Commanders?

 

I can see how a a few of the Consuls could make for Lieutenants - holding a specific role before advancement into a more wholistic warfare position of Centurion. Or just using a cheaper Centurion in lower point games?

Same for Lieutenant Commanders. Practicing a deep specialisation before movement into the upper command echelons. Or just a cheaper Praetor?

[Noserenda]

They'd both be centurions I guess as that entry covers all the field officers, Praetors are colonels/chapter masters or particularly heroic lower ranks I guess.

 

Not certain about lt commander though, I think commanders are below captains in naval ranks?

[lansalt]

"Centurion" is a generic rank echelon that covers from many veteran sergeants to senior captains and commanders one step below "praetors", the hig ranking officers directly under the primarchs.  Technically a centurion should be in legion terms the equivalent of a captain leading a hundred men company (hence the name), but in practice many veteran legionaries were awarded the rank but lead smaller demi-companies as lieutenants, or even squads as still veteran sergeants. Others become specialized consuls.

 

The crests and pteruges you can see in many minis are supposed to be the original terran centurion rank markings, and that later many legions swapped them for their own cultural aesthetics and customs. The Ultramarines are notable for having kept those even in the 40k era.

 

 

Edited March 22, 2023 by lansalt

[Armillion]

We don't have any rules for Lieutenants and some Consuls could maybe be extrapolated to be roughly in that role.

 

That said, if I were to homebrew it, because homebrewing is a lot of fun, I would do it as follows, making them intermediate between a Centurion and a Sergeant (Essentially look at it as either W2 I5 Ld9 Sergeants or WS4 BS4 A2 Ceturions).  Intentionally no option for terminator armour, but you get bikes, jetbike, and jump packs as options.

 

0-1 Legion Optarii Corp/Conclave (placeholder name) 30 Pts- Vibing naming off of the Optio being the rank of the second in command to a Roman Ceturion in roman legions, and while Optiones is the plural form of Optio, it may be a little confusing to go with that name.

M7 WS4 BS4 S4 W2 I5 A2 Ld9 Sv3+

 

Unit Composition

1 Legion Optarii

 

Wargear

BP, Chainsword, Power Armour, Frag & Krak - No refractor field option, you have to pick either a boarding shield or combat shield to get an invuln.

 

Special Rules

• LA (X)
• Independent Character
• Relentless
• Support Squad
• Optarii Corp - At the beginning of the game, each model must be assigned to another unit (like Apothecaries or techmarines) and may not leave, gaining all types/subtypes and necessary special rules, no more than one Optarii per squad - You gain the benefits of being an IC including wargear selection but lose the freedom to come and go as you please, becoming akin to the dark angels Storm of War RoW
• Legiones Candidatus - Each one may select from a few consul-junior options for points.  Each can select different options.

 

Options:

A Legion Optarii Corp may include up to:

- 2 Additional Optarii ... +30 pts each

May take artificer armour for .... +10 pts

Keeps all other power armour Ceturion wargear options

 

Legiones Candidatus Options:

• Librarian Junior - Similar options as libriarian, but Psychic checks on Ld7, no psychic hood option.  Librarians in training, less reliable to cut back somewhat on psychic spam.
• Champion Junior - Increase WS to 5, free power weapon Now you melee as well as a regular ceturion
• Vigilator Junior - Increase BS to 5 (would gain infiltrate and scout only if you put it with such a unit via the Optarii Corp rule, like Apothecaries)
• Armistos Junior - Heavy weapon of Choice "I am heavy vepons gei" for your squads
• Herald Junior - Vexilla & Stubborn No line, fear, or fearless, get watered down stubborn instead.
• Chaplain Junior - Hatred (Everything) Good at making your guys chop better, but without leadership buffs
• Forge Lord Junior - Battlesmith (4+) & Servo Arm, option for cortex controller, no machinator array or cyber familiar
• Opsequiari - Fear (1), Reduce leadership characteristic to 8.  When fail a morale check, unit suffers 1 wound with no saves or damage mitigation of any kind allowed and count as passed instead.  A unique option with no Consul equivalent, now you can recreate the Space Wolves unique Space Marine Commissar.  Essentially Corrupted unit type lite, with penalties to both you and enemy leadership as a result.

The other consul options wouldn't really fit as well dropped down a notch.  Primus medicae is already fulfilled with Apothecaries.

Either way, you gave me a fun thought exercise.

 

Edited March 22, 2023 by Armillion

[Valkyrion]

Is anyone referred to as 'Praetor' in the novels? I can't recall it being used.

The main 'Centurion' character i recall being referred to was Khârn.

 

I've always considered a Lieutenant to be someone like the Sergeant of a Veteran squad (e.g, Vipus in 'Locasta' Squad under Loken) - not necessarily a rank openly referred to but a senior sergeant.

 

 

Cool - if you type Khârn it automatically puts the circumflex on. That's neat.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Valkyrion

[corvus.calvariam]

Centurion and Praetor are catch-all terms meant to encompass a variety of ranks. The fluff blurbs for both entries in the army list provides some examples. Praetors encompass Chapter Masters, First Captains, Khans etc. Centurions range from "Company Captains in command of a thousand or more Legionaries on-campaign, or a shield-lieutenant given charge of a boarding party".

 

These descriptions were written before the Delegatus consul type was introduced, and that entry added a bit more nuance to the mix. They are referred to as "mid-ranking Legion officers".

 

Going by the chart from Book 1 Betrayal on generic Legion organization, I would say that Centurions encompass low level Company Captains or lieutenants, Delegatus consuls represent Battalion/Lieutenant Commanders, and Praetors represent Chapter Master level officers.

[Noserenda]

Yeah i think there is an Ultramarine Praetor too? Though honestly most of Ultramarine command are such non entities they barely register, or immediately die :( 

Its a clever move in a way, having a rank structure that most legions immediately moved away from that you can use in the rulebooks without having to repeatedly list off half a dozen variants, especially when Space marine ranks are always super inconsistent, illogical and irrational because it all grew out of a skirmish game and half the writers dont care past ranks sounding cool :D 

Highlighting the Delegatus is a good shout too @corvus.calvariam!


 

[Xenith]

17 hours ago, Armillion said:

homebrew it,

 

0-1 Legion Optarii Corp/Conclave (placeholder name) 30 Pts- Vibing naming off of the Optio being the rank of the second in command to a Roman Ceturion in roman legions, and while Optiones is the plural form of Optio, it may be a little confusing to go with that name.

M7 WS4 BS4 S4 W2 I5 A2 Ld9 Sv3+

 

I'd swap the I5 for WS5 so he's at least as competent as a normal veteran. Other than that, I wouldn't have mini ranks - they're supposed to be specialists, things like forge lord jumior would be represented by a techmarine, secundus medicae would be  an apothecary. 

[OttoVonAwesome]

Decurion is the lesser leader rank. 1.0 had rules for them and a limited edition model for it. I think they mentioned them on the stream as being in the new campaign book. Basically a baby preator let's you do preator things but on a 2 wound model.

[Noserenda]

2 hours ago, OttoVonAwesome said:

Decurion is the lesser leader rank. 1.0 had rules for them and a limited edition model for it. I think they mentioned them on the stream as being in the new campaign book. Basically a baby preator let's you do preator things but on a 2 wound model.

I think you are thinking of the Delegatus? The Decurion is new afaik, and specifically mentioned to be a tank commander in the preview article, im guessing tank centurion rather than the existing tank praetor.

[lansalt]

I foresee that the decurion will be a consul similar to sgt. Chronus from the 40k Ultramarines.

[corvus.calvariam]

4 hours ago, Noserenda said:

I think you are thinking of the Delegatus? The Decurion is new afaik, and specifically mentioned to be a tank commander in the preview article, im guessing tank centurion rather than the existing tank praetor.

 

He might have been thinking about the Centurion with Early Crusade Honors perhaps? But this guy just had a master-crafted powerfist and a locked warlord trait. Either that or he's thinking about Skorr.

 

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by corvus.calvariam

[OttoVonAwesome]

Yeah prolly was the Delegatus. Iv'e been sick and not sleeping very much. lol

Edited March 24, 2023 by OttoVonAwesome

[Xenith]

Yea, Delegatus was somewhere between Centurion and Praetor - the skills and experience of a centurion (in battle), but on a very specific mission allowing certain privilage and protection and use of rites.