Does Dante Really Crave Release?

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Just curious if I’m the only one who doesn’t like the whole “I want to die” arc they gave Dante?

 

just doesn’t seem particularly…epic or heroic for one of the imperium’s most epic heroes.

[Jolemai]

Personally, I think it's been hyped by folk who want to put memes on the internet.

[Jolemai]

Thread split from the Primaris Dante thread

[Cleon]

I don't mind the 'I'm weary, we're not supposed to live this long and I've had the burden of Leadership too long' angle, it's very much a parallel to some of the older depictions of Dorn. I didn't pick up an 'I want to die' theme so much as 'I wouldn't regret it if death were to come, my work would not feel unfinished, but for this vision that there is more to do'. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, Jolemai said:

Personally, I think it's been hyped by folk who want to put memes on the internet.

Yeah the memes oversimplify and and overhype this aspect of his background now, but it just seems like such a lame cop out for good writing and character development 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, Cleon said:

I don't mind the 'I'm weary, we're not supposed to live this long and I've had the burden of Leadership too long' angle, it's very much a parallel to some of the older depictions of Dorn. I didn't pick up an 'I want to die' theme so much as 'I wouldn't regret it if death were to come, my work would not feel unfinished, but for this vision that there is more to do'. 

I don’t remember the exact wording but I’m pretty sure I feel DoB that Dante was disappointed that he didn’t die. Sounds like he wanted to die.

[The Unseen]

Well, that was after he had just seen what to him was the death sentence of more or less his entire bloodline, and he had made his peace with both that and his upcoming imminent death. That and he's just tired. He won't *let* himself die, he's had more than enough opportunity, he's just ready for it to happen because he wants to lay his burdens down. I can't imagine the kind of mental stress he's been under for literally over a millennia of leading the chapter. For point of comparison, just take a look at how much just being president of the US for 4 years ages people.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

29 minutes ago, The Unseen said:

Well, that was after he had just seen what to him was the death sentence of more or less his entire bloodline, and he had made his peace with both that and his upcoming imminent death. That and he's just tired. He won't *let* himself die, he's had more than enough opportunity, he's just ready for it to happen because he wants to lay his burdens down. I can't imagine the kind of mental stress he's been under for literally over a millennia of leading the chapter. For point of comparison, just take a look at how much just being president of the US for 4 years ages people.

There’s a difference between accepting an imminent death and wishing for death/being disappointed you survived.

[Majkhel]

I believe that 'being tired' adds a lot to Dante and is in fact really in line with Sanguinius' own great trait - humility. For me if Dante feels tired then it also means he's not a tyrant that is now so used to being in charge he's unable to perceive a different reality. One in which he's not there at the top. Feeling tired also makes all his efforts all the more heroic and in-line with the general struggle that all BA are so familiar with on many levels. 

[Xenith]

I didn't get the feeling that he wants to die, just that he's tired. Really tired, and he's come to terms with that his death was coming at some point. 

[Scribe]

For personal reasons, I love it. I think its fantastic thematically and ties to concepts present in Valdor (duty over all) and the World Eaters, which have had something of a relationship since at least 3rd.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

9 hours ago, Majkhel said:

I believe that 'being tired' adds a lot to Dante and is in fact really in line with Sanguinius' own great trait - humility. For me if Dante feels tired then it also means he's not a tyrant that is now so used to being in charge he's unable to perceive a different reality. One in which he's not there at the top. Feeling tired also makes all his efforts all the more heroic and in-line with the general struggle that all BA are so familiar with on many levels. 

But if he were tired he could step aside from his role as chapter master to reduce his burden and simply remain as an advisor.

 

also how humble can Dante be considering he’s convinced that he’s the dude that’s going to save the galaxy with no real evidence except ‘golden warrior’

[Blindhamster]

I don’t think he wants death, he was just accepting of it in a way that someone truly old would be. 

[Majkhel]

12 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

But if he were tired he could step aside from his role as chapter master to reduce his burden and simply remain as an advisor.

 

also how humble can Dante be considering he’s convinced that he’s the dude that’s going to save the galaxy with no real evidence except ‘golden warrior’

He can't step down because of his MASSIVELY strong sense of duty. The kind of which makes BTs weep manly tears of understanding and support.

About the golden warrior - nice try . However please read again a passage in the 'Devastation of Baal' when Dante wakes from his dream.

Spoiler

He had had the dream of the golden warrior many times. Whether it was a genuine vision, he could not tell.
Dante kept the dream to himself, knowing that its recurrence would be seen as egocentricity on his part. This need for the figure to be him, for him to have one truly worthy deed to do before his life was done…It was a weakness, and he did not care to share that. He was amused by how much he tried to convince
himself he was the warrior.

He had never seen the face, though from the form of the armour the figure was a Space Marine, and not a mortal or a member of the Adeptus Custodes. Did he see wings? He discounted them. If it were Dante, where was his axe? Well, Dante theorised, he might have lost it. Besides, visions were figurative, not literal. Unfortunately, they shared that characteristic with dreams.
He smiled at his conceit that he would save the Emperor.
While this desire he had was undoubtedly indulgent, he needed it. He needed a reason to continue, to fight the daily woe and exhaustion his position burdened him with. If there was harm in that, it was no great one.

I like this part the most: "He smiled at his conceit that he would save the Emperor." Says it all. People that lack humility also lack the sense of humor when it comes to them.

[Xenith]

13 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

But if he were tired he could step aside from his role as chapter master to reduce his burden and simply remain as an advisor.

 

That's not how marines work. Only in death does duty end. And his duty is to kill the enermies of the Imperium and protect His domain. 

 

Anyway, who would replace him? His seemingly chosen successor, Tycho, was mutilated then went insane and died canonically something like less than a decade before the devastation of Baal - maybe he was planning to retire, but his successor flipped out and Karlaen is too much of a nobody to take over - he doesn't even have a renaissance name. 

[Arkangilos]

9 minutes ago, Xenith said:

he doesn't even have a renaissance name. 

This exactly!

 

As to my answer, no. I’ve been there. I wanted to die, to be done. But I had more important duties to attend and so I powered through that emotion. That part of me never left. To me, and this isn’t me saying I am heroic, Dante is more heroic because of it.

 

He is ready to be released from the pains of this life to be united in death with his father. But he knows he has a duty so he chooses not to. It’s the difference between someone being selfish and selfless. It is, “Not mine, but Thy will be done.”

 

I wish that several of my friends had that  outlook. We would still be talking. 
 

So yeah, it is one of my absolute favorite things about Dante.

Edited March 24, 2023 by Arkangilos

[Orblivion]

He did, when he thought he had failed and Baal was lost and he was dying from wounds inflicted by the Swarmlord.  He now has renewed fervor out of a sense of shame for that desire.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

12 hours ago, Xenith said:

 

That's not how marines work. Only in death does duty end. And his duty is to kill the enermies of the Imperium and protect His domain. 

 

Anyway, who would replace him? His seemingly chosen successor, Tycho, was mutilated then went insane and died canonically something like less than a decade before the devastation of Baal - maybe he was planning to retire, but his successor flipped out and Karlaen is too much of a nobody to take over - he doesn't even have a renaissance name. 

He would still be fulfilling his duty as an advisor, and could essentially just be a garrison commander for the Arx Angelicum.

 

granted now that G gave him new responsibilities he can’t really, but before then he was more than able to offer the job to a senior captain.

 

who would replace him? Likely whoever was the captain of the 1st Co.

 

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Arkangilos]

On 3/24/2023 at 3:31 PM, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

He would still be fulfilling his duty as an advisor, and could essentially just be a garrison commander for the Arx Angelicum.

The stuff that makes him tired would still be there. The constant struggle with the curse, the watching of his chapter falling (it was the lore at least prior to the Primaris that the curse was getting worse and more fell to it and more frequently), the seeing the Imperium crumble, etc. Even as an advisor everyone would hold him to the same esteem, so that burden would still be there. 
 

In fact, I would venture to say that would make him more tired. One thing I remember everyone saying, and something I didn’t understand until I was there, was that the best part of deployment was how simple life was compared to when one was at home. You wake up, you go out on a mission, and you focus on the job because if you don’t you die, you get back from the mission, you eat, and then you go back to sleep. You wake up, you go on the mission… It’s very clean cut. You follow orders, you give orders. It is also ironically why my granddad and a lot of other people from the military I know love motorcycles. It mimics the simplicity of that life. You wake up, you ride, you focus on the ride. It is liberating. 
 

Dante would go from the “simple” life of that to having a desk job, while still having to be the hero of the imperium. But then he would have to be a hero with the same blood thirst, the same expectations of him, but none of the liberating simplicity of going on missions.

[BluejayJunior]

Space Marines don't just retire like that. "Only in Death Does Duty End." No other Astartes would still respect Dante if he gave up his duty to lead his chapter. And he would never back away from his duty either or want to put the burden of leadership onto someone else. And he wouldn't be satisfied in an advisory role. He leads from the front, never asking others to do anything that he wouldn't. 

[b1soul]

Exactly how old is Dante in current 40K...1600 years old or even older?

 

A 400 year old space marine is quite an impressive veteran...this guys is like four times that?

[Blindhamster]

He has been chapter master for well over 1100 years, may be more than that, he rose to the rank of captain over a few hundred years too, not sure we have a precise age but over 1500 is what most official things say now

[Karhedron]

It depends on how you define current. I believe he was 1500 during Devastation of Baal. With the timeline of the Indomitus Crusade being retconned, I am assuming he is probably still close to that. The Plague War ended about 12 years after the Great Rift opened and I assumed Guilliman crossed the Rift into Nihilus to relieve the Blood Angels shortly afterwards. Since the warp makes chronology go wibbly wobbly timey wimey, from the Blood Angels' POV, Guilliman arrived in the immediate aftermath of the Great Rift opening. I am sticking with 1500 for Dante unless GW have printed an updated age anywhere.