Rending type rules vs strength

[Bear]

Hey all!

 

Another random HH question for you all from my game last week, do rules like rending overrule strength? Or do you need the minimum strength for those rules to come into play?

 

For example,

 

a) say a unit it S3, Rending 5+ and goes up against a T7 dreadnaught. Can you attach the dread or not?

b) something with front armour 14 is shot by a S5, rending 5+ weapon. Can you still make the shots as you could get technically get a glance due to the extra D3 strength (5+6+3 = 14)?

 

On the one hand, I would say “no” to both as the text next to the S vs T table on pg186 states “A ‘-‘ indicates that target can not be wounded by the attack”. To me, that say that you need the minimum strength first and then the additional rules come into play.
 

However, on the other hand my mate advised that the rending rule on pg246 states “regardless of toughness / plus and additional D3 for armour pen” so I’m really not sure :-P

 

Thanks you all so much in advance and hope I haven’t opened a can of worms with this one!

[Ripper.McGuirl]

It’s actually pretty clear, though it takes a second to notice the differences. Rending specifically says that on the target number, the attack auto wounds and is AP2. So yes, S3 Rending could wound a contemptor. However, Breaching and Murderous Strike do not have the auto-wound stipulation. So S3 Breaching would not be able to wound a contemptor.

Edited March 26, 2023 by Ripper.McGuirl

[Bear]

Oh, OK.
 

So is it the same for the vehicle situation too?

 

If so, it seems incredibly powerful for such a common rule. I mean that means you can 1 shot a Armour 13 tank with a S5 dude :-P

[Xenith]

16 hours ago, Bear said:

On the one hand, I would say “no” to both as the text next to the S vs T table on pg186 states “A ‘-‘ indicates that target can not be wounded by the attack”. To me, that say that you need the minimum strength first and then the additional rules come into play.

 

Always remember that special rules override the general - in this case, you're right that S4, e.g. lightning claws, can't normally wound a leviathan, however as the claws are rending, on a 6 they automatically wound at ap2. 

 

4 minutes ago, Bear said:

If so, it seems incredibly powerful for such a common rule. I mean that means you can 1 shot a Armour 13 tank with a S5 dude :-P

Not quite, the rending rule says that against armour, the original AP of the attack is what is used, and not the AP2. So against infantry, you get an auto wound and ap2 on a wound roll of a 6, while against vehicles an armour roll of a 6 gets you an extra D3. 

 

So a dude with S5 rending could glance 5+6+3 = AV14 and penetrate AV13 or less, but not one shot it. It's why assault cannons are So Damn Good. I believe last edition they were statistically better at taking down AV13 targets than lascannons, which is why lascannons now get sunder.

[Bear]

Awesome! Thank you so much all :-D

 

I’m still wrapping my head around how the system works :-P 

 

 

37 minutes ago, Xenith said:

So a dude with S5 rending could glance 5+6+3 = AV14 and penetrate AV13 or less, but not one shot it. It's why assault cannons are So Damn Good. I believe last edition they were statistically better at taking down AV13 targets than lascannons, which is why lascannons now get sunder.

Sorry! Yeah that was a typo / miscalculation on my part :-P Been a long day!

 

Huh… well I am definitely going to keep that in mind! I play Iron warriors so that means my lightning claw termies might have just become my new pretty much everything killers :-P

 

Thanks so much again all!

[Xenith]

No problem, that's what we're here for 

 

Just bear in mind that fishing for 6's maybe isn't the most reliable strategy, and fist terminators will probably still beat lightning claw terminators in a fight most of the time, though it is a nice little boost. Against dreads, you also have shred with the claws, so you'll normally hit on the 5+, then wound on a 6, rerolling, however even then you'll maybe only get a few wounds through. 

[Bear]

2 minutes ago, Xenith said:

No problem, that's what we're here for 

 

Just bear in mind that fishing for 6's maybe isn't the most reliable strategy, and fist terminators will probably still beat lightning claw terminators in a fight most of the time, though it is a nice little boost. Against dreads, you also have shred with the claws, so you'll normally hit on the 5+, then wound on a 6, rerolling, however even then you'll maybe only get a few wounds through. 

Indeed!
 

Na, they definitely won’t be my primary tank hunters (that would be my iron circles / dreads / tanks depending on the size of the game) :-D

 

However, knowing they can charge a knight that has 1 wound remaining if needs be come turn 5+ is pretty neat!