Six months of Votann

[Doobles57]

So it's about 6 months since the Leagues launched. After the initial new faction excitement, mess of the early nerfs, and the opportunity to get a bunch of games in, how do people now feel about and short brethren?

 

Personally, I still love the aesthetic, the lore and the core idea of the faction. I've enjoyed building and painting them, and I'm excited to see what new models come down the line (the Kill Team box not included. Jump pack guy aside, they're a bit uninspired in my opinion and I already have more than enough warriors).

 

Gameplay-wise though......it's a different story. I don't enjoy playing with them all that much. Each game I've played has had one very cool moment in it - be that Berserks pummelling Bobby G into a paste, or my Exactor champ dropping 15 mortal wounds on a unit of Necron destroyers before turbo boosting onto an objective to win the game. But outside of those moments, I've not found them very satisfying. It's an odd combo of still overpowered rules (there's a counter to everything via abilities or stratagems) and over costed units meaning I can't use all the things I'd like to, and those I can use feel broken in isolation. It just doesn't feel fun - for me or my opponent. 

 

Maybe it's my playstyle and them not meshing with it. There's also a factor of other players still equating Votann with the broken rules that never even saw a table and not being keen to play against them in the first place. 10th Edition may fix all this. I hope so.

[phandaal]

Kill Team was a solid miss for me. Very disappointed, especially because it means we have no more outstanding rumor engine pictures... All of them were wrapped up in that Kill Team kit.

 

Points-wise, yeah. The current costs are annoying. Every list feels 10-15 points "off." GW did an exceptionally poor job rolling them out from a balancing standpoint. There is also still the fact that Trans Hyperian Alliance's ancestral judgment is still broken. Things like that just remind me how little care the rules team is giving 9th edition at the moment.

 

As far as the perception goes, people do still think Votann are some unbeatable Boogeyman, despite the book never even making it live in its original state. Not much to be done about that. Goofballs complain.

 

Aside from all that, still going strong with Votann. Dwarves of all kinds have always been my jam. Minor downsides (to me) are not going to change that!

[Lord Marshal]

I've yet to play a game with mine simply because my focus remains on the Horus Heresy. Knowing 10th would be coming soon, it wasn't worth trying to re-relearn 40k in time to have to do it all over again - particularly when rumours have been pointing to a 'reset' for a while, which we now know to be true. 

 

I'm let down that the Kill Team is just an upgrade sprue for Warriors of all things. As I said on the Gallowfall thread, most Votann collectors will already be swimming in the buggers and the Votann desperately need an additional Troops choice. Kill Team would have been a good place to add it (ALA Sisters Novitates). Naturally I'm also disappointed it has likely quashed the rumours/hopes of a second wave landing sooner rather than later, but the presence of a 'Jump Pack Warrior' does strongly allude to them being a future, full addition to the 40k range so that's something. 

 

That being said, I'm still happy we're getting a Kill Team at all - particularly when several armies like Death Guard and Grey Knights haven't seen a bespoke one yet - and I can see myself getting games of KT in with Votann before I do 40k. That's assuming I can actually grab a Gallowfall box of course and I'm not stuck waiting 3-5 months for them to release separately.

 

26 minutes ago, phandaal said:

As far as the perception goes, people do still think Votann are some unbeatable Boogeyman, despite the book never even making it live in its original state. Not much to be done about that. Goofballs complain.

 

Looking at how people still bemoan Tau as 'the WAAC army' for the sin of being powerful in 7th, I sincerely doubt Votann's reputation as The Boogeyman v.3 is going away anytime soon. Hell, Chaos Space Marines had to pay for the sins of 3.5 for close to two decades. 

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Lord Marshal

[phandaal]

2 minutes ago, Lord Marshal said:

Looking at how people will bemoan Tau as 'the WAAC army' for the sin of being powerful in 7th, I sincerely doubt Votann's reputation as The Boogeyman v.3 is going away anytime soon. Hell, Chaos Space Marines had to pay for the sins of 3.5 for close to two decades.

 

Little do they know, playing Dark Angels for all of 9th edition inured me to the complaints. Angry sighs of people who were frustrated about not being able to sneeze my whole army off the board in a single turn, whining from pre-nerf Tyranids players having to wound Space Marines on a 4 with their basic infantry bug shooters... All just background noise now.

 

Then I switched from Dark Angels to Votann right as Dark Angels got truly OP in Arks of Omen, only to get complaints about my Dwarves? All I hear is someone asking for a grudgin.

[TheVoidDragon]

I think the Leagues themselves are pretty cool but I feel like things have been handled pretty bad, or at least in a way that I'm disapointed with.

 

All those rumour engine pictures that suggested a wave 2 turned out to just be single models in a Kill Team, which is a shame. They're nice enough models, just not what I was hoping for at all. If some of those get expanded to full units, like the Jet Pack guy, then that would be great.

 

But the main issue I have with the Leagues is just how they've actually been integrated into 40k....they haven't. Not in the slightest.

 

Their Models exist, and that's about it. Months of hyping them, with a new army being added to 40k something i assumed would be a big deal as its not often that happens, but it turns out its more like they've just been shoved out and then that's it. They just...kinda exist in a purgatory-like state, where they've been given 1-2 very brief sentences of their involvment in Arks of Omen, and that's the full extent of their interaction with the 40k setting. They've not had further lore, no mentions in novels, and worst of all not even any hints of getting a novel of their own - even though it's been a year since they were announced (but of course, the Lion gets a novel announced within a week!)

 

I really expected it to be handled better.

[Dr. Clock]

Still haven't played a game with them due to hobby lag, but I'm still plenty pleased with them. I had a few reservations about them, but like many other kits before them, you have to see them IRL to best appreciate.

 

I was not sold on the Beserks at first, but they are growing on me fast!

 

Pioneers also had some derp potential, but I think they're close to the best 'bike' GW's ever done... and I'm an Eldar player! They're a bit of a laborious kit like both Outriders and Shroudrunners or any jetbike, but overall I found them more satisfying.

 

It's a little sad to see the comp/meta-game leave basic troops out of the equation more or less, but that's not really unique to Leagues. I'm likely running ~34 warriors in my first game, but that's my group's general friendly standard. Bikespam and Serkspam risks are honestly an expected result of such a limited range and internal rigidity. I'll still be sticking with my personal 'min 3 troops and rule of 2 for other things' restriction, but 2 each Pioneers and Beserks as standard feels fine.

 

Mostly at this point I'm just glad I didn't buy the Codex considering I'll likely end up playing... 3 or 4 games with them between now and next edition? My headcanon on them is strong enough that I can wait to read up on the official narrative lol.

 

It feels at least possible or even likely that wave 2 on the range could happen w/in 18 months; I wonder if GW will try and retain the 'non-rules' elements of a few of the late-9th books to push out more codexes in year 1 of 10th. I dunno if y'all noticed, but AoS tomes are coming pretty thick and fast in 3rd and it wouldn't surprise me if 'finishing' Votann and WE happens in the first year or 18 months of 10th... Maybe part of that is just wanting those Beastmen in my WEaters tho ; )

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

 

 

 

 

[phandaal]

53 minutes ago, Dr. Clock said:

It's a little sad to see the comp/meta-game leave basic troops out of the equation more or less, but that's not really unique to Leagues. I'm likely running ~34 warriors in my first game, but that's my group's general friendly standard. Bikespam and Serkspam risks are honestly an expected result of such a limited range and internal rigidity. I'll still be sticking with my personal 'min 3 troops and rule of 2 for other things' restriction, but 2 each Pioneers and Beserks as standard feels fine.

 

There are actually a fair amount of podium finishers using 20-30 Warriors, which is awesome for old-school Dwarf players like myself who want to see a nice big unit of beardy dudes stomping up the board. 20-Warrior blocks are great buff targets.

 

59 minutes ago, Dr. Clock said:

Mostly at this point I'm just glad I didn't buy the Codex considering I'll likely end up playing... 3 or 4 games with them between now and next edition? My headcanon on them is strong enough that I can wait to read up on the official narrative lol.

 

The codex is definitely worth a buy for the lore and campaign stuff. At this point you can probably find one for extra cheap on eBay now that all the bandwagoners are starting to drop off.

[Dr. Clock]

3 hours ago, phandaal said:

At this point you can probably find one for extra cheap on eBay

Good call... It's been a good while since I bought secondhand; seems there are a few available for about half price including shipping nearby : )

 

Cheers,

 

E

[Kelborn]

Don't play the game or paint minis but from a lore point of view, they're still lacking a lot of implementation/ integration.

It's nice to have an upcoming BL novel by Gav, who surprised me with his worldbuilding in Luther but aside from that?

No shorts, no novella, no WD story from what I recall.

 

Really lacking but I hope this changes sooner rather than later.