The Lion - Son of the Forest by Mike Brooks

[ZeroWolf]

I know Valrak posted about the space wolf one today. Some of these sound like the writers might have had some fun  also:

Spoiler

Holy Prime Ark? I'm now imagining the Lion teaming up with Optimus.. 

 

[Jareddm]

Spoiler

Finished it myself today and overall I thought it was very solid.  The Lion's personality felt appropriately introspective and the work around all of the Fallen was great. That afterword was especially handy to put a lot into perspective.

 

That said, I'd say my main two critiques are how the Lion got his gun and his shield.  The fights with the primarch shapeshifter was cool, but something about its placement in the very end of the book just felt off. I know the Watcher in the Dark did his whole, "You are not strong enough yet" when the Lion tried the first time, but the fight against Seraphax was just so satisfying!  I genuinely didn't see his plan coming but it fit him to to a T. Having the primarch fight after it felt like too much to me.

 

As for his gun...I don't know. It was just there on the planet? I don't really have a better alternative but that one really had me raise an eyebrow.

 

[Gederas]

1 hour ago, ZeroWolf said:

I know Valrak posted about the space wolf one today. Some of these sound like the writers might have had some fun  also:

  Hide contents

Holy Prime Ark? I'm now imagining the Lion teaming up with Optimus.. 

 

Oh yes, they very much did with this

Edited May 13, 2023 by Gederas

[DarkChaplain]

Imagine being Logan Grimnar, who was almost ready to throw it all away in a gamble to create the Wolftime and force Russ's return, then finally coming to accept that things will happen on their own schedule and you can't reasonably self-sabotage just to speed them up... and then learning about Russ's rival the Lion coming back from the dead, without even being prophecied by the man himself.

 

"So you brought back another Primarch and it's STILL not ours? And we don't like either of the two we got so far! Skitja!"

[Gorechilde]

Spoiler

I would have to say that I like the direction they took with the Lion. There is a maturing of the character, if you will. He has gone from stern, distrusting, and in some ways jaded, to attempting to get things right and once again becoming the protector he was before the imperium. He is still a hunter of monsters. He is still the Primarch of the First. Above these things however, he has decided to focus on being the Lord Protector of Mankind and push back on the new Old Night as much as he and his sons can manage.

 

I do like the amends (in both directions) that the Fallen and the Lion work out and his declaration that the ones that join him are Fallen no more. I'm very curious to see how far The Risen are taken and whether or not they actually get a unit entry within future Dark Angels releases. The is also the question of those such as Luther and the Lord Cypher, where they lay, how their meeting with the Lion will happen , how that meeting will end.... I am curious if the Cypher book that tells his tale starting with his escape in the Imperial Palace ends in Imperium Nihilus strictly because that is where the Lion is about to resurface...

 

A final topic of interest for me is the forest, the watchers, and the mute king.  It's obvious that we are looking at something warp related here. It's either a segment of the webway, a construct left behind by the Old Ones, or even a pocket created by the Watchers themselves. It is a place where the soul of the Lion was allowed to heal and a place where the Emperor dwells, a world behind worlds. Speaking of the Emperor, we have the mute king who is slowly bleeding into the warp. He is silent and not by choice, something is binding him and preventing him from speaking until the proper question is asked to unleash him, perhaps it is the Great Rift. I believe this will be an important plot device in the future and will likely not be resolved until we have Russ, Vulkan, Omegon, and the Khan back at large as well. I don't think Corax will play in now that they have officially revealed him as a daemon prince of the Emperor (a creature now made only of shadow and blades, hunting his chaos brethren). The treatment of the forest and the Emperor in it seems to suggest to me that the Cabal, or at least the Watchers, have an alliance with the Emperor in the wake of the Heresy or are simply mutually respected neighbors. Perhaps a future version of a Grand Alliance of Order in a post Imperium era.

 

[Carach]

On 5/15/2023 at 11:25 PM, Gorechilde said:

  Hide contents

I would have to say that I like the direction they took with the Lion. There is a maturing of the character, if you will. He has gone from stern, distrusting, and in some ways jaded, to attempting to get things right and once again becoming the protector he was before the imperium. He is still a hunter of monsters. He is still the Primarch of the First. Above these things however, he has decided to focus on being the Lord Protector of Mankind and push back on the new Old Night as much as he and his sons can manage.

 

I do like the amends (in both directions) that the Fallen and the Lion work out and his declaration that the ones that join him are Fallen no more. I'm very curious to see how far The Risen are taken and whether or not they actually get a unit entry within future Dark Angels releases. The is also the question of those such as Luther and the Lord Cypher, where they lay, how their meeting with the Lion will happen , how that meeting will end.... I am curious if the Cypher book that tells his tale starting with his escape in the Imperial Palace ends in Imperium Nihilus strictly because that is where the Lion is about to resurface...

 

A final topic of interest for me is the forest, the watchers, and the mute king.  It's obvious that we are looking at something warp related here. It's either a segment of the webway, a construct left behind by the Old Ones, or even a pocket created by the Watchers themselves. It is a place where the soul of the Lion was allowed to heal and a place where the Emperor dwells, a world behind worlds. Speaking of the Emperor, we have the mute king who is slowly bleeding into the warp. He is silent and not by choice, something is binding him and preventing him from speaking until the proper question is asked to unleash him, perhaps it is the Great Rift. I believe this will be an important plot device in the future and will likely not be resolved until we have Russ, Vulkan, Omegon, and the Khan back at large as well. I don't think Corax will play in now that they have officially revealed him as a daemon prince of the Emperor (a creature now made only of shadow and blades, hunting his chaos brethren). The treatment of the forest and the Emperor in it seems to suggest to me that the Cabal, or at least the Watchers, have an alliance with the Emperor in the wake of the Heresy or are simply mutually respected neighbors. Perhaps a future version of a Grand Alliance of Order in a post Imperium era.

 

 

I've not read this book yet, but your last paragraph kinda rings some bells regarding the direction of Eisenhorn culminating in the in-progress Bequin trilogy.

 

Spoiler

A world behind worlds? A pocket where the soul of the Lion could heal? 

This wouldn't be similar to the 'in-between' space our Yellow King chap has been creating/expanding upon in the Eisenhorn/Bequin books, would it? 

As that could imply that the Yellow King - widely suspected to be Mr Custodes himself - could in fact have been trying to support the Emperor from this 3rd realm in a manner similar to what you describe has happened with the Lion. 

 

[Roomsky]

The Lion: Son of the Forest - Mike Brooks (Audiobook)

 

 

Gonna be honest, not sure how to rate this one. I'm usually a proponent of assessing a book based on the product alone (rather than the intent or circumstances of its writing,) but the introductory novel to the Lion's return was doubtlessly restricted in a way other BL books would not be. What's more, we have no idea the extent to which Brooks was fettered, what he was mandated to include, etc. Is it fair to judge a book  on what I think it should have been, if that was never a possibility in the first place? Impossible to say, and I can't very well review something where every topic includes "but if Brooks was free, this was a mistake, but if it was mandated, he did well with what he was limited to" - so I'm just going to talk about this with the assumption that Brooks had to write a story where the Lion wakes up, gathers some fallen, and meets Dante. No room for explanations as to why he's up, how his forest powers work, or where his equipment comes from. Within those parameters, I think this is pretty darn good.

 

The Lion Problem

 

This term I just made up refers to the following:

• Lion El'Jonson should never have punched Nemiel's head off
• Lion El'Jonson did punch Nemiel's head off, and we have to roll with that now

 

I like Brooks' Lion. As with his Alpharius, he's done a great job of combining all his previous portrayals into a cohesive whole - and more than that, into a character who you can believe others would follow. He doesn't wear his character flaws on his sleave, instead he rationalizes them and drapes them in a veneer of logic. It's a great portrait of the character and TBH, is what he should have been from the start.

 

However, the man did punch Nemiel's head off.

 

I'm in agreement with the Fraters saying this feels like a sequel to a book we didn't get. I believe this is the Lion 100% - but I'm a bit confused as to how we got here. Last we saw he was a complete wreck, and I don’t see how the destruction of Caliban would have balanced his humours. He awakens having reverted to his more bestial instincts, becoming the hunter once again. So how does that turn into this level-headed paragon once he remembers who he is? Is the Emperor calming him down? If so, how? Did his dreams bleed those feelings away? Don't know, we don't see them. And if Brooks wasn't allowed to write about these things, surely he could have used the novel to show this mellowing out instead of having it occur over the course of a few chapters and/or off-page. The Lion just wakes up and immediately proves a better diplomat than Luther ever was, funnily enough.

 

I get that Brooks was never going to write the Lion I wanted - probably because GW has no desire to be interesting. No bitter :cuss:-disturber here, no wrench in Guilliman's new status quo who's going to show up to the Rock and pull Asmodai's head off. But if he had a whole novel to get from waking up to gathering some Fallen and meeting Dante, I would have liked more of it to be him struggling with the failure of himself and his legion more meaningfully, and less of him freeing oppressed worlds. Also, for someone as progressive as Brooks, the book is surprisingly uncritical of the Emperor's "final solution." This Lion's a positive saint compared to his old self.

 

ALL THAT SAID, I must repeat that IMO, this is the Lion we should have gotten from day one. He's decisive and holds his cards close, but he's not a raging man-baby like Thorpe's or boring like Lee and Scanlon's. He's powerful, but not invincible. His struggles are few but they ARE struggles, I don't feel like he wins "because primarch." I like this guy! Let Brooks keep him, please.

 

The Fallen and the Rizzen

 

So, this is the best Dark Angels novel since Angels of Darkness, and the best Dark Angels literature since Dreadwing. Zabriel is, unambiguously, my favourite Fallen character ever. His perspective on the state of the galaxy and the legion's fracturing is eminently compelling and I ate up his thoughts on everything he encounters. The other Dark Angels aren't as well defined, but I enjoyed reading about them because they had that good balance of idiosyncrasies that made their interactions entertaining.

 

On the other side of things, Seraphax and the Thousand Eyes were great too; framing Chaos-corrupted and renegade Fallen as embodying a twisted version of Crusade-era ethos is exactly what I'd want to see from them. We observers all know Chaos is made of lies, but it's followers being led along by the nose for a "noble" goal that they're willing to sacrifice anything or anyone else for is just so much better than "mwahaha power!"

 

I love these guys so much that, as someone who dislikes primarchs returning, I wish Brooks'd just gotten to write a novel about some Fallen. His Lion's good but like, a bunch of pseudo-loyalists fighting amongst themselves is better. While we'd lose some of the good parts of this story without him, the BEST parts don't need the Lion, nor a post-rift Imperium.

 

Story Execution

 

Brooks is a talented writer. His prose is breezy, he writes good characters, and there is clearly a great deal of thought into where action is appropriate, and what makes it compelling. While at times this does read like a clear tie-in product meant to puff up Mr. Of-The-Forest, it never devolves into just jerking off the character. Despite my issues with how quickly the Lion gets over himself, all of the challenges in the book are ones of his own making and he clearly acknowledges that fact. I have to give credit that, if my guess at the limitations above are accurate, we could have gotten a far, FAR lesser book here. And with the book as enjoyable as it is, I have a hard time holding its not being an entirely different book against it. Hell, I wish Dark Imperium had been this good. GET THIS MAN A TRILOGY.

 

There's a few slow spots, and the contrivances of getting the Lion into his new status-quo is hard to ignore even giving the book grace for being a tie-in as it is, but I don't think it damages the strong core overmuch.

 

Uhhhhh 7.5/10? Would be less if I didn't know GW had its hands all over it, but I had a great time cover to cover.

Edited May 23, 2023 by Roomsky

[DarkChaplain]

I think the missing part of the Lion's arc is in some ways comparable to how Guilliman was approached. Not just that BL never got to tell his resurrection, or the Terran Crusade, but they've been excessively silent about his meeting with the Emperor for years. It's only really with Godblight that we got a look at the scene, with Guilliman thinking about what he found there. Likewise, the Cypher novel by French? That's stuff that's been left completely mysterious since 8th edition happened.

 

We received stories on Guilliman that are set before or after his meeting, him receiving the sword and what not, but it's clear that GW didn't want this stuff to be told at the time.

Now if we take into account that Dark Imperium was originally set a century after that meeting, and that timeframe in-between was very nondescript - with Psychic Awakening supposedly being set after the Plague Wars, until they weren't with the retcons - there seems to have been a clear intention to not answer these questions, deliver those narrative arcs, and establish a new status quo first and foremost. In the end we got the backfilling via timeline retcons, Dawn of Fire and such, but I could see them trying this sort of thing again with the Lion - to keep options open, maybe, or because they're like Jar Jar Abrams and love their mystery boxes.

...now let's just hope we're not in for a TLJ and RoS.

 

I could still totally see them having something big planned with Gav for the fall of Caliban, especially now that Arks of Omen quite directly ties into the Legacy of Caliban trilogy and the Heresy arc around Tuchulcha. I think there's ample opportunity to smooth a bunch of things out about the Lion's progression by way of Caliban. We'll see how it'll shake out, but even then we'll most likely have to cope with the metaphysical stuff, gear just being there to be found by the Lion and what not.

[Jareddm]

My wife had a critique that she wished one of the Fallen had just said no to the Lion.  Not fallen to Chaos, just had developed different values and different wants in life since Caliban. We almost get there with Bevedan but he ultimately relents, though perhaps it was more that he was pushed towards the Lion by Seraphax.  I figured some of the Fallen from Echo Station would've been a good opportunity to create a split.  If only to show that while the pull of the Lion to his sons is great, it is not indomitable and that the Fallen do have some agency when offered to join him.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Jareddm

[BitsHammer]

I'd argue that Seraphax was saying "no" by trying his plot at the end of the book, but that is probably a bit on the nose since he was the antagonist of the story.

 

I agree it'd be nice to see someone say no, but I can also understand how there is some cathartic vindication for the Fallen to be forgiven and offered a chance to do what they were made to instead of hiding in the shadows waiting for death so I can also understand why no one said no.

[wecanhaveallthree]

Quote

My wife had a critique that she wished one of the Fallen had just said no to the Lion.

 

I'm hoping we see some of the Dark Angels say no to the Lion. They've been doing things in a particular way for ten thousand years - who's this guy, and who is he to try and make them stop? 

One of the best things that came out of Guilliman's return was Calgar hitting fathomless pits of despair that the Primarch was back, but what he wanted was the image of that Primarch, not the reality - and was left largely adrift because of it. Let's hope the Fallen meme dream stays alive with a whole new schism in the Unforgiven!

[Moonreaper666]

2 hours ago, wecanhaveallthree said:

 

I'm hoping we see some of the Dark Angels say no to the Lion. They've been doing things in a particular way for ten thousand years - who's this guy, and who is he to try and make them stop? 

One of the best things that came out of Guilliman's return was Calgar hitting fathomless pits of despair that the Primarch was back, but what he wanted was the image of that Primarch, not the reality - and was left largely adrift because of it. Let's hope the Fallen meme dream stays alive with a whole new schism in the Unforgiven!

 

Do Successor Chapters like the Relictors count?

 

Feel like they would shoot their own Primarch on sight more than the Space Sharks/Chacaradons and Ashen Claws would when they meet Corax!

[Jareddm]

Based on the recent White Dwarf story bits, the Dark Angels are doing their best to keep the Lion under wraps from their successors. I expect this is to give them time to figure out a plan that allows them to maintain control. The Lion is definitely giving his own final say on any captured Fallen and absconding with those he considers innocent. 

[Krelious]

I felt like the Lion was a bit like Sanguinious in Echoes giving atypical charismatic speeches that energizes his men/astartes with his whole I dont want to rule bit but also he generally treats his space marines as equals/brothers which is pretty cool. The Lion comes across as a cool dude who is very honest, he has no grandiose view of himself like say Lorgar or  Magnus and just views himself as a sword and shield to protect humanity. I feel like he is a good counter balance to Guilliman in that Guilliman is a very organized generalist who is very clearly superior to everyone around him even in wits but he doesnt rub that in their faces he just expect them to do their duty and follow his commands. The Lion is more like obey me or not I you have your own choices and I will lead a battle if you allow me to but otherwise governance is yours. He says he has legendary focus but it seems he can switch between tasks very quickly as he conducted a navel battle very easily. I have yet to read the Arks of Omen Lion but overall I feel like the Lion is a very intrigueing character and it seems that his novel was like a poetic accompaniment to the recent  Angron novel. I also like that since the Lion got old joke hes not portrayed as an overpowered demi-god but he still has to be careful against Chaos space marines which is a nice touch to add dramatic tension to the story as I felt that previous portrayals of primarchs was like it would take another primarch or a greater demon for them to be in any peril. As my first Mike Brooks book I found him similar to ADB in quality. 

[Urauloth]

I'm a bit late here, and I'll write more when I have more time, but I really loved this one. Post-nap Lion is a very interesting character, and it's quite unusual to see anyone in the Imperium (or in Warhammer generally) reflect on the fact that they might have been wrong - not just misled or ill-used or misinformed by others, but actually wrong - instead of doubling down on dogma. What really makes him stand out is that instead of reacting to this self-reflection by throwing himself onto a new path of catastrophe (looking at you, Lorgar) he's actually doing something about it. He's trying to make things right with his sons, as much as that's possible. He's trying to be the leader and protector he should have been. He's not trying to fix the galaxy like Guilliman, though. He's just doing what he can where he can. It certainly makes him a fascinating counterpoint to his brothers.

 

The Fallen are terrific as well, and I wish we'd gotten to know some of them a bit better and had a bit more time to spend with them. Their perspectives on their primarch and the events that destroyed their homeworld were more interesting to me than all the other Dark Angels fiction I've read put together. For a relatively short book, this is a great character piece, a satisfying adventure yarn (and I love it for having its ceramite boots planted so unapologetically in classic fantasy - magic swords, knights, monsters, even a quest to defeat an evil wizard!) and also an illuminating addition to the lore of a faction who've had something of a rough ride where lore is concerned.

Also, maybe it's just me, but I found the tone and framing of some of the 1st Legion history noticeably different here. They still had caches of illegal Dark Age super-tech, and they still fought secret battles against enemies who were stricken from the records after they destroyed them, but not (as Lord of the First implies) because they were the coolest legion who were better than everyone else, but because by virtue of being the first legion, they had to. I assume that was always the intention, but some of the fluff prior to this makes it seem like the Emperor needn't have bothered making any more legions after the 1st, and this feels a lot more... balanced. Like their place makes more sense and feels more natural. Could just be that this book was what I needed to smooth the rough edges off the Dark Angels for me personally.

 

Anyway, it took a faction I never had any real interest in and set me to planning how to kitbash a Kill Team of them, so it lit a fire under my hobby inspiration.

[ShortCircuit]

On 6/9/2023 at 1:59 AM, Urauloth said:

Anyway, it took a faction I never had any real interest in and set me to planning how to kitbash a Kill Team of them, so it lit a fire under my hobby inspiration.

Agreed wholeheartedly. Finished this the other day, having never really cared for dark angels since "The Fallen!" seemed to be pretty much all they had going. By the end of the book The Lion was among my favorite modern 40k characters, and the more down to earth marines like zabriel were inspiring me to paint up a renegade/fallen marine force.

 

On the whole, very happy with the book. I read it just after Angel of Fire, which was rough at times, so the quality seemed great. The plot was simple but did its job well, and the characters were well done. I also really enjoyed Brutal Kunnin, and I think if you like Mike Brooks this will be another hit.

[TrevorLoLz]

I am very interested to see where this whole thread goes with the Lion returning and effectively forgiving any voluntary Fallen.

 

On the one hand, a good segment of the Dark Angels Chapter would just go along with the Primarch's directives, having no real idea who or what these "Fallen" are.

 

But the Deathwing? Surely there must be some overly zealous members who would be like "We can't just let them go, they're traitors", which can cause all sorts of division and conflict. Hope this gets competently explored.

 

Similar can apply to the remaining Unforgiven Chapters who know of the Primarch's return but are not continually in his presence like the Dark Angels. What do they do?

[Helias_Tancred]

Absolutely loved this novel. 

[DarkChaplain]

On 8/7/2023 at 10:08 AM, TrevorLoLz said:

I am very interested to see where this whole thread goes with the Lion returning and effectively forgiving any voluntary Fallen.

 

On the one hand, a good segment of the Dark Angels Chapter would just go along with the Primarch's directives, having no real idea who or what these "Fallen" are.

 

But the Deathwing? Surely there must be some overly zealous members who would be like "We can't just let them go, they're traitors", which can cause all sorts of division and conflict. Hope this gets competently explored.

 

Similar can apply to the remaining Unforgiven Chapters who know of the Primarch's return but are not continually in his presence like the Dark Angels. What do they do?

 

Looks like we're about to get an answer as to what happens to the Fallen/Risen with the reveal of the "Companions" bodyguard unit. It's heavily implied in the background teased on WarCom that nobody is really sure where those Astartes came from or who they are, and their armor is very dark green, almost black, similar to the Lion's armor.

 

I can't wait for this whole "mystery" to be addressed in a novel. Though knowing GW/BL, it probably won't happen for years.

Edited December 27, 2023 by DarkChaplain

[Markov Gheist]

I've been wanting to get into a new BL novel, so would you recommend Lion: Son of the Forest? Bit worried about the whole pronoun situation and how much it may inform the rest of the book.

Edited December 27, 2023 by Markov Gheist

[cheywood]

5 minutes ago, Markov Gheist said:

I've been wanting to get into a new BL novel, so would you recommend Lion: Son of the Forest? Bit worried about the whole pronoun situation and how much it may inform the rest of the book.

We’re very different people in that pronouns have never affected my enjoyment of anything, but I read the book earlier this year and have no memory of pronouns playing a role in the story. I think you’ll enjoy the book, it’s a quality yarn with some good reflection on the nature of the Imperium.

[Markov Gheist]

12 minutes ago, cheywood said:

We’re very different people in that pronouns have never affected my enjoyment of anything, but I read the book earlier this year and have no memory of pronouns playing a role in the story. I think you’ll enjoy the book, it’s a quality yarn with some good reflection on the nature of the Imperium.

Thanks. Nowadays it's hard to tell whether a review is genuine or overexaggerating when it comes to these things. I don't mind it when such elements are plausible within the universe and story, but I'd rather avoid anything with on-the-nose references to "current day" topics.

 

I'm torn between this and the HH Alpharius novel. If you happened to have read both, I'd love your opinion on it.

Edited December 27, 2023 by Markov Gheist

[cheywood]

18 minutes ago, Markov Gheist said:

Thanks. Nowadays it's hard to tell whether a review is genuine or overexaggerating when it comes to these things. I don't mind it when such elements are plausible within the universe and story, but I'd rather avoid anything with on-the-nose references to "current day" topics.

 

I'm torn between this and the HH Alpharius novel. If you happened to have read both, I'd love your opinion on it.

It’s Black Library. The Imperium is a giant warning sign saying ‘authoritarian dictatorships are bad’ in big red letters, but the books are rarely vocal about modern day issues in any meaningful way besides that rather broadly agreed upon point.
 

I would recommend Alpharius over the Lion. It’s a much more unique and engaging book, that recontextualizes parts of the Heresy in interesting ways.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

11 hours ago, Markov Gheist said:

Thanks. Nowadays it's hard to tell whether a review is genuine or overexaggerating when it comes to these things. I don't mind it when such elements are plausible within the universe and story, but I'd rather avoid anything with on-the-nose references to "current day" topics.

 

FTR, I don't even remember pronoun soup being a thing in Son of the Forest.

[TrevorLoLz]

On 12/28/2023 at 1:21 AM, Lord Nord said:

 

FTR, I don't even remember pronoun soup being a thing in Son of the Forest.

 

Neither- this thread is the first time I was even aware that it was even a thing.