Logos Lectora and Disembarking?

[Cruor Vault]

One of the Commands available when using the Logos lectora RoW is:

 

Hold Fast: All Models with the Infantry Unit Type and the Legiones Astartes (Ultramarines) special rule must increase their Leadership (if applicable) by +1 and may re-roll all failed To Hit rolls during a Shooting Attack, but may not Move or Run in the Movement phase.

 

How does this interact with the rules for Disembarkation?

 

Placing Disembarked Models: When a unit Disembarks, place the models one at a time, using the following method: place the first model in base contact with one of the vehicles access points (including its flying base, if it has one).  A Disembarking model's base cannot be placed within 1" of an enemy model or withing Impassible Terrain.

The model can then make a normal move - Dangerous Terrain tests should be taken as normal, but it must end its move wholly within a number o inches equal to its movement Characteristic of the of the Access Point it Disembarked from.  Repeat this process for each model in the unit.  At the end of the unit's move, all models must be in unit coherency.

 

Am I correct in thinking that this prevents any infantry units from disembarking as the disembark process now includes moving as the mechanism for placing the models (rather than the old method of placing them within X inches of the access point, before moving them)?

[SkimaskMohawk]

Kinda, it depends.

 

The first stage of a disembarkation is placing the model in contact with the access point, then you move it, then place the next one. 

 

Depending on the unit size and proximity of the access points you can disembark without moving, which is definitely tricky. But flyer bases count as access points in their entirety, so it's easy to do there with things like flyers.

[Gorgoff]

I would laugh at everyone who claims disembarking is not a movement. That's where I draw a line in the sand.

[SkimaskMohawk]

The placement part definitely isn't, it's a placement lol.

[Gorgoff]

30 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

The placement part definitely isn't, it's a placement lol.

It is silly beyond any reason to die on that hill, Skim. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

It's the same hill I'm always on lol. 

[Gorgoff]

13 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

It's the same hill I'm always on lol. 

True dat.

Jokes aside RAW it isn't a movement but if someone disembark they move their lazy ass and that's it for me. I know 2ed is full of stupid nonsense but this is where I draw the line. Luckily it is rarely the case. 

[dickyelsdon]

Narratively it doesnt make sense that the troops would 'Hold Fast' by keeping a firm grip of the handrails in their Rhino, but game wise I do follow the assumption that they cant Disembark under this (the exception obviously being a forced disembarkation). Perhaps you could allow the action with the stipulation that they cant benefit from re-rolls, or maybe not shoot at all. I could see that being abused tho with combat focussed troops using the turn to disembark and position themselves for a charge, which would be against what appears to be the intention of the Logos.

[CaptainHelion]

Regardless of whether they move after they are placed or not, they're considered to have been moved for the purposes of shooting. This says to me that the act of disembarking is intended to count as Movement, though I'd admit it could be a bit edgewise at the RAW level.

 

"Disembarkation Restrictions
After Disembarking, models can make Shooting Attacks
in their subsequent Shooting phase, counting as having
moved that turn"

 

[armarnis]

disembarking is an alternate form of movement, the death guard legion ability calls it that and disembarking for example makes you not count as stationary. so yes disembarking is a movement but not a normal one. as things become somewhat silly if you say you cant disembark, i would allow it

[OttoVonAwesome]

It's not a standard move. We shouldn't need Faq's for this.

[Cruor Vault]

3 hours ago, OttoVonAwesome said:

It's not a standard move. We shouldn't need Faq's for this.

Kind of sums up everything about 2.0 Lol. 

 

So much stuff that they could have been a little tighter on the writing with, but weren't and now there is confusion.

 

I think the safest bet is to play it as disembarking isn't allowed, even though RAW there is an argument to be had for deploying in base contact with the access point.  In reality it's just not practical in most situations.

 

Personally I wish they had kept disembarking as 3" from an access point, and treated movement afterwards as a separate mechanic.  It would have been a lot cleaner.

[Gorgoff]

On 4/5/2023 at 2:44 AM, Cruor Vault said:

Kind of sums up everything about 2.0 Lol. 

 

So much stuff that they could have been a little tighter on the writing with, but weren't and now there is confusion.

 

I think the safest bet is to play it as disembarking isn't allowed, even though RAW there is an argument to be had for deploying in base contact with the access point.  In reality it's just not practical in most situations.

 

Personally I wish they had kept disembarking as 3" from an access point, and treated movement afterwards as a separate mechanic.  It would have been a lot cleaner.

When was that the case?

[SkimaskMohawk]

2 hours ago, Gorgoff said:

When was that the case?

Basically 5th. Disembark was place within 2", but you edged the back of the base for an almost 3".

 

 

[Gorgoff]

6 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Basically 5th. Disembark was place within 2", but you edged the back of the base for an almost 3".

 

 

Ah I remember. And you also gave the explanation why they had to change it.

Edited April 9, 2023 by Gorgoff

[SkimaskMohawk]

5 minutes ago, Gorgoff said:

Ah I remember. And you also gave the explanation why they had to change it.

 

Idk if they "had" to change it. The biggest complaint was getting that extra inch on your disembark+move+charge (back when it was a set distance with no premeasuring) from the transport that hadn't moved. 

 

They changed the disembark radius, but also wiped out charging from non assault vehicles.

 

Man, the more I refamiliarize myself with 5th the better it looks, and more I want to try heresy in pure 5th.