Why are Space Marines called the Emperor's Finest....If there are Custodes?

[Phantomworks]

This is something that I cannot seem to satisfactorily answer or get an answer to. Don't get me wrong. I like the Space Marines like most of us. However, over the last few editions and lore wise, it seems they are sliding down the tier or badassery.....

 

I mean they are not infallible, have caused the most serious threat to the Imperium....but that was the mystery up until the 8th edition which started turning things around big time. Despite the introduction of Primaris, I feel lore wise they are loosing their awesomeness....Am I wrong?

 

Custodes have been unleashed, Primarchs have returned....it just seems like the ultimate fighting soldier, the Space Marine is kind of relegated....

 

 

Thoughts?

Edited April 7, 2023 by Phantomworks

[Lord_Ikka]

Custodes are the Emperor's companions and bodyguards. While they fought in the Unification Wars, and in the Heresy, they were never considered a "fighting force" in the way the Astartes are. They are an exceedingly small and extremely elite force that is one ten thousand strong, whereas the Astartes numbered in the millions during the Heresy and are still quite numerous (in comparison to the Custodes). In the ten thousand years from the Heresy to the current era, the Custodes, for the most part, stayed out of the Imperium proper and simply were guarding the Palace on Terra. They are/were relegated to mere legend and myth, where the Astartes were constantly in the forefront of Imperial battles. 

 

Primarchs lead Astartes- without the Astartes the Primarchs, while potent warriors and leaders, don't have near the same level of power and influence that they do with their sons at their back. The Astartes are the finest of the mainline forces of the Imperium. They are more than human, equipped with weapons and wargear that magnify their combat capabilities beyond anything that could be considered normal, and are dedicated to unending conflict. The propaganda mills of the Ministorum and Administratum venerate the Primarchs, but the Astartes are more real; flesh and blood changed by the grace of the Emperor into the ultimate weapon.

 

Now, as far as tabletop goes- SM are alright. Almost every edition has some time where SM will have a top-tier build (currently DA and Iron Hands are very powerful), but SM are never the dominant faction. SM tend to be the "base" faction; the faction that every other faction and all stats are measured against because SM are generally an army that the majority of players have (last stat I think I remember was something like 70% of 40k players had some sort of SM army). With the faction able to field so many players, GW (while still promoting SM as the elite of elite and making them the posterboys of the game) has a delicate balancing act to do in designing rules for the SM- if they are as powerful as they are in the lore the game would become nothing more than what HH is now, Marine vs Marine, and those players that don't want that would most likely leave. So SM are generally tuned slightly down, probably intentionally, so that they tread the line of a decent but not great army. A good starter army, but one that requires a lot of dedicated practice, and in some cases luck, to really compete against the top-tier factions that have smaller player-bases. 

[b1soul]

Probably more relevant to the Great Crusade...but why would the roughly 10,000 Custodes be called the "Emperor's finest" if there were around 20 primarchs who could easily crush any Custodes 1 on 1, save perhaps Valdor?

 

Still, the Emperor's finest soldiers is what I'm thinking...and the Astartes are indeed super-soldiers, whereas the Custodes are super-bodyguards/counter-assassins who almost never impact the battlefield directly.

Edited April 9, 2023 by b1soul

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Propaganda.

marines call themselves America’s finest, but there’s still SEALs, delta force, green berets, para-rescue, etc. not mentioning there’s nothing about them that makes them inherently better than the US army or USN

[b1soul]

There's a hierarchy within the SEALs as well iirc, with tier one and tier two teams

[havlar]

Also somewhat sign of times, back in the past Custodes and the primarchs have been relegated to more of a background role.

 

Custodes were supposed to guard the Emperor and never left the palace, while Primarchs were either dead or gone/lost.

 

Now a bad joke: I can't wait until Cawl gets his hands on Custodes, and then we can expect the super-Custodes. Yikes, I hope I'm wrong.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

21 minutes ago, b1soul said:

There's a hierarchy within the SEALs as well iirc, with tier one and tier two teams

Same for delta I think too

[b1soul]

iirc Trajann Valoris' predecessor was very conservative and the Custodes became even more passive under him

 

Ah, it wasn't Valoris' direct predecessor, it was the one before that who was extremely conservative: https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Galahoth

 

Seems Galahoth's eventual disappearance may have been connected to Cult activity which spiked shortly afterward. I take this to mean (without discounting other possibilities) he was either assassinated or maybe himself compromised somehow.

 

Valoris' direct predecessor tried to undo the passivity caused by Galahoth's leadership but got killed rather early: https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Andros_Launceddre

 

Interesting to note here that a certain sect of scrying psykers relied upon by the Adeptus Custodes were possessed by Daemons. Sounds like fertile ground for a prequel series to Chris Wraight's Watchers of the Throne, preferably by Wraight himself. There appear to be forces at play capable of eliminating one, perhaps even two, Custodes Captain-Generals and infiltrating Chaos into a psyker sect the Custodes used for critical intel.

Edited April 9, 2023 by b1soul