Should Chaos/GW revive Alpharius and Konrad to fight Lion and Guilliman

[Moonreaper666]

I believe Chaos should revive Alpharius and Konrad to rally the Alpha Legion and Night Lords to fully commit towards the destruction of the Imperium

 

-Konrad can rally Krieg Archebus, Zso Sahaal and Decimus to fight the Imperium

 

-Both Traitor Legions get two new subfactions with their own unique units and mechanics

 

-Alpharius has dirt on both the Lion and Guilliman. Leak these truths and watch as Trillions of Imperials and some of the High Lords turn their backs on both the Lion and Guilliman

 

-Alpharius would 'convince' many worlds on Segmentum Pacifus under attack from the Tyranids and other Xenos to join Chaos

 

-Omegon would be forced out of the shadows and join his brother and Legion into attacking the Imperium

 

-Both revived Traitor Primarchs would have Sorcery and Daemonic Powers

Edited April 10, 2023 by Xenith

[Orange Knight]

Never say never, but I don't personally expect GW to go out of their way with some of the less defined Primarchs in the short to medium term.

 

At the moment they seem to be focusing on the God specific Primarchs for Chaos, and the Primarchs associated with the most famous chapters for the loyalists. I expect that the next two will be Fulgrim and then Russ.

 

What I think would be exciting, is if Alpharius did indeed make a return, but could be used by both loyalists and traitors. The model could look similar to his 30k counterpart, but with a few customisation options that could make him look like he's leaning more toward Chaos or the Imperium. 

 

[Urauloth]

Short answer: No.

Long answer: No thanks.

[Xin Ceithan]

No. 
 

It’s one of the main themes of AL to be able to act without needing a Primarch to hold their hands/ claws / tentacles..

 

Just like it is one of the major themes in NL is not to give a damn about theirs anymore.

[Scribe]

No. Bringing back actually dead Primarchs is a horrible idea.

[Karhedron]

I can't imagine Kurze rallying anyone. He hated his legion by the end of the Heresy and wanted nothing to do with them. After the Heresy, when he was freed from stasis, he made no attempt to rally the Night Lords or do anything with them. Those in his fortress simply stayed out of his way. Also, Kurze was never a big believer in Chaos. He sided with Horus as he believed the Emperor was a hypocrite, he never sought any daemonic gifts so I doubt Chaos would have much interest in him. Chaos resurrecting non-daemons is incredibly rare and only the most devoted mortal servants like Khârn might receive that sort of attention. Kurze likely hates Chaos as much as he hates the Emperor.

 

Also I don't see Chaos reviving Alpharius for the same reason. Also the latest siege books imply that Alpharius was actually playing at being a double agent and planned to aid the Loyalists during the Siege. Unfortunately Dorn didn't give him time to explain and probably wouldn't have been willing to listen anyway. But the point still stand, Alpharius was never committed to Chaos. Whatever his legion may have become since, I can't see him rallying them to attack the Imperium

[Brother Tyler]

There are enough living traitor Primarchs that GW doesn't have to do something foolish like bringing dead ones back (that sentiment applies to the loyalists and the traitors). It would be far better for GW to preserve the lore and just focus on those Primarchs that are known/thought to be alive. Personally, I'd like GW to slow down on the Primarch train (both loyalists and traitors). Bringing too many Primarchs back offers too much potential to drive a massive change to the setting in the form of a revisited active Horus Heresy. I prefer the sandbox setting rather than ongoing progressing storyline. I can see how they might bring Fulgrim back if they give the Emperor's Children a codex/codex supplement/whatever format of rules they end up using. As far as we know, there are three other living traitor Primarchs (Lorgar, Omegon, and Perturabo). If GW feels compelled to bring back other traitor Primarchs, I would hope that they would focus on those three (in addition to the Phoenician). My personal preference would be Omegon simply as a matter of keeping things in check somewhat. I won't bother naming the loyalists I'd like to see returned, but it seems obvious that GW can't/won't let the balance of power shift too far in favor of Chaos, so more returning traitor Primarchs would seem to imply that we'll also see more returning loyalist Primarchs (and I'm not a fan of that).

 

The traitor legions that don't have well-defined rules and sub-factions don't need resurrected Primarchs to get them.

 

Omegon can come back from the shadows any time he wants [assuming he's not dead/prisoner somewhere] without needing his [previously] dead twin to motivate him into action.

 

Ultimately, while more variation is good (feel free to disagree), giving any one metafaction the upper hand in a way that would drive an actual conclusion to the setting would be a terrible idea. Yes, there are some hobbyists that would love to see the storyline develop in such a way that the setting might be dramatically changed (a la the transition from the End Times to the Age of Sigmar in fantasy), I suspect that there are more hobbyists that would prefer for the overall balance of the setting (i.e., everyone is fighting a desperate battle for survival/domination, but no one is ever quite reaching that end state) to be preserved. I'm definitely in that camp. The "change" we see should be in the form of new faces/places, threats all around, etc., without any one side ever truly winning.

[b1soul]

I like incremental but meaningful progression of the meta-plot, like the Great Rift and a few loyalist primarchs returning. 

 

40K is so profitable, I don't see why GW would ever want to hard reboot the setting End Times style. I'd expect a total overhaul of that scale to happen only if 40K starts failing hard commercially. From a lore perspective, would be totally unnecessary. 

 

As for Curze, M'shen was carrying a blood-leaking head in the NL trilogy, so unless that head was somehow fake (like Curze somehow had a primarch-sized double with which to fool her), Curze is Ferrus-level dead.

 

Now, Ianius/Janus shows us that a soul shared of Magnus could be bonded with one of his sons to birth something new. That could be worthy of some exploration, but really depends on how it feeds into the wider narrative.

 

 

[TheHyperion]

I don't think we will be seeing many more primarchs from GW for 40k. I could be wrong in the end but thus far they have been trying to keep it down to 1 primarch per codex it seems. General CSM have their "primarch" in the form of Abaddon. World Eaters, Death Guard, and Thousand Sons all have theirs and I suspect we will be getting Fulgrim near the end of 10th edition if the trend continues. For loyalists I imagine it will be Russ and Sanguinius (hopefully as the Sanguinor or something creative to not diminish his death) returning. I can't see really anyone else coming back. Reviving dead primarchs would also really start to mess with 40k canon and logic and might cheapen the setting as a whole.

[Arkangilos]

The only Chaos primarchs I want to see return are the ones that are still kicking around. Personally, other than the Word Bearers, I don’t think even those should unify any of their legions. Iirc, most legions don’t really care much for their primarchs anymore anyways.

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

On 4/8/2023 at 8:34 PM, Moonreaper666 said:

I believe Chaos should revive Alpharius and Konrad to rally the Alpha Legion and Night Lords to fully commit towards the destruction of the Imperium

 

-Konrad can rally Krieg Archebus, Zso Sahaal and Decimus to fight the Imperium

 

-Both Traitor Legions get two new subfactions with their own unique units and mechanics

 

-Alpharius has dirt on both the Lion and Guilliman. Leak these truths and watch as Trillions of Imperials and some of the High Lords turn their backs on both the Lion and Guilliman

 

-Alpharius would 'convince' many worlds on Segmentum Pacifus under attack from the Tyranids and other Xenos to join Chaos

 

-Omegon would be forced out of the shadows and join his brother and Legion into attacking the Imperium

 

-Both revived Traitor Primarchs would have Sorcery and Daemonic Powers

Death has no meaning when slain/forgotten heroes/villains reemerge. Imo 40K suffers from the presence of any Primarch on the table regardless of affiliation.

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

From a creative/artistic standpoint bringing them back would be a huge mistake.

 

However GW is a business and Primarchs are bank. Once they bring back Fulgrim (which will happen in 2026 at the end of 10th) they have run out of codex specific Traitor Primarchs so will need Lorgar, Perturabo and the dead guys to keep the money rolling in.  

Edited February 19 by The Praetorian of Inwit

[Moonreaper666]

On 4/13/2023 at 12:30 AM, Arkangilos said:

The only Chaos primarchs I want to see return are the ones that are still kicking around. Personally, other than the Word Bearers, I don’t think even those should unify any of their legions. Iirc, most legions don’t really care much for their primarchs anymore anyways.

 

But they do obey every direct command from their Primarchs

 

Normal Konrad would curbstomp Old ass Lion. A revived and empowered Konrad would be so fast and hit so hard he would crush every bone in the Old Lion's body with a single hit in less than a second

 

Had Alpharius been blessed by Chaos he would have butchered Dorn and every Loyalist on Pluto, giving Horus an easy victory

[Scribe]

4 hours ago, Moonreaper666 said:

 

But they do obey every direct command from their Primarchs

 

Normal Konrad would curbstomp Old ass Lion. A revived and empowered Konrad would be so fast and hit so hard he would crush every bone in the Old Lion's body with a single hit in less than a second

 

Had Alpharius been blessed by Chaos he would have butchered Dorn and every Loyalist on Pluto, giving Horus an easy victory

 

Nope sorry, Plot Armour wins, and that means Daemon Primarchs lose.

[Moonreaper666]

5 hours ago, Scribe said:

 

Nope sorry, Plot Armour wins, and that means Daemon Primarchs lose.

 

Not if GW wants to stay away from imminent bankruptcy within three months

 

It's why they won't bring Sanginius back until End Times

 

Warhammer fans are crazier than Genshin Impact fans and they get what they want

[Brother Monty]

It all depends on how, I’d say alpharius coming back and having it maybe be omegon so they could use it as a way to split the alpha legion into loyalist and chaos, but Konrad is dead, his story ended, but Sevitar is still kicking so that would be an Awsome night lords story where he brings the war bands together and they become an actual threat. (Sev being alive is only a theory but Kurze said he was still alive and people think he was seeing the future.)

[techsoldaten]

Bringing back canonically-dead Primarchs is a horrible idea.

 

Angron, Mortarion and Magnus work because they are these ancient Daemon Primarchs who never died to begin with.

 

While I could understand a story where Alpharius was in hiding this whole time, pulling the strings of the Alpha Legion in secrecy, Kurse was assassinated. There's not a lot of nuance to that, his story ended. Same with Sanguinius, same with Ferrus, same with Russ.

 

But 40k isn't served well by turning it into 30k. These fallen heros are part of the pathos of the setting. 

[tychobi]

Sounds good to me! I'd prefer some new characters but an Imperial civil war is long overdue 

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

Alpharius NO. Dorn killed him - and Alpharius cried like a bitch too - so he needs to say dead.

 

Konrad could be interesting IF his return was handled well. However I don't trust GW to do that so he probably should stay dead dead. 

[Brother Monty]

On 4/8/2023 at 1:34 PM, Moonreaper666 said:

-Omegon would be forced out of the shadows and join his brother and Legion into attacking the Imperium

 

I think alpharius is the only one that can come back reasonably but giving Omegon light by doing what you said (without Alpharius) would be a much better idea.
 

Having a primarch no one really knows about be very dangerous would be an insanely Awsome story line. I don’t remember if Omegon was confirmed loyalist or traitor so the amount of political intrigue would be perfect for novels. Along with a unique model for GW to get motivation to make it happen.

 

however Kurze should stay dead due to his story ending. He was proven right, and he would probably not push the story due to him most likely pouting cause he wasn’t right. But giving the power to Sevitor would be cool cause then it’s a new charecter and it would be fun for lore.

[Karhedron]

8 minutes ago, Brother Monty said:

Having a primarch no one really knows about be very dangerous would be an insanely Awsome story line. I don’t remember if Omegon was confirmed loyalist or traitor so the amount of political intrigue would be perfect for novels. Along with a unique model for GW to get motivation to make it happen.

 

His loyalties were left ambiguous. The Serpent Beneath implies Omegon's loyalty was to the Emperor while Alpharius leaned towards Horus but it is not exactly conclusive. The Twins' plan seems to have been to play off both sides against each other while they gathered more information. The AL would then intervene at the critical moment to tip the balance in whichever direction they decided. To this end, they placed 30,000 AL in sus-an beneath the Imperial Palace as a reserve force. When awoken, a single code word would instruct them whether to fight for the Emperor or Horus.

 

However, Dorn's showdown with Alpharius before the Solar War kinda scuppered the plan. Alpharius had not counted on Dorn being so enraged that he would kill him before even giving him a chance to speak. As a result, by the time the point came where the AL reserves could have been useful to help the Loyalist cause, there was no chance of the Loyalists trusting them and the opportunity was wasted. The AL got so caught up in their scheming that they effectively damned themselves for nothing.