What’s the current estimate for marine numbers?

[MegaVolt87]

17 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

Very possible but didn't Guilliman essentially disband the Grey Shields, sending them to their parents Chapters or forming new ones?

 

He did, but I don't know the exact timing. I want to say at the midpoint of the Indomitus Crussade, but not sure. 

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

It happened in the revised Dark Imperium, set only a dozen years into the Crusade.

[Marshal Rohr]

There probably aren’t 7 million space marines now, half of the Imperium is locked in place and fallen into ruin. Everyone on the far side of the rift is probably not running at 100%. The new Inductii Lore indicates it was impossible to calculate how many legionaries were created over seven years because attrition was so heinous. If we take GW at face value when they say the Indomitus Crusade is the worst fighting since the Heresy, that attrition rate would have to be similar. 
 

as for if the codex organization still applies? Not even Games Workshop knows or cares. Where it once was a great way to guide players in building a collection it got in the way of unfettered model purchases.  

[Chainsword Cookie]

I would say around 2.500.000 - 3.000.000 from sanctioned, loyal, space marine bloodlines. Of these 1/4 died in the opening stages of the Indomitus Crusade which saw appalling casualties among the Primaris due to the inexperience and mechanistic/rote combat practices impressed upon them by Cawl. Keep in mind that these are effectively 25-40 years old marines who were grown en masse, armed and armoured en masse and with zero active combat experience. 

 

Fast forward to mid Indomitus Crusade I reckon that the numbers settled around 2.500.000. Most of which are now "brevet" chapters of the Ultima founding. At this stage the most experienced Primaris has 30+ years of combat experience. In the meanwhile the chapters kept recruiting so maybe 100 new marines per chapter, all Primaris, due to the simple fact that the Primaris are genetically stable and in some aspects superior, which allows for a more rapid growth/recruitment ratio. 

 

In the current timeline I reckon we have something like 3.000.000 marines and zero idea how the space marines in Imperium Nihilus fare. In these years recruitment is ongoing, I am positive that all the Cawl tech and the hundreds of thousands of Primaris pods still work and are being used. Think of them as the "harvest plants" of the old Word Bearers legion.

 

And this is all without considering that Cawl surely has stasis caskets full of Primaris made with the unsanctioned geneseed of the traitor legions. It is implied in his book, maybe just a bit of fan service, but a theory nonetheless. 

 

In the meanwhile every Chaos Space Marine which dies is probably the last of his breed. In no way, shape or form can the traitor legions and warbands of heretics replenish their numbers at such a rate that they can counter the Primaris legions. 

 

The trick here is simple, the current timeline is apocalyptic and the Imperium is staggering and bleeding manpower in such numbers that even with the influx of the Primaris is merely a trickle of warriors. The difference with how space marines operate is drastic though. Most of the Primaris fought alongside Primaris from other bloodlines, their strengths and weaknesses alloyed, integrated, enhanced. Also the chapters now act as proper armies, perform mass assaults, fight in set piece battles. It is a different era and with two primarchs leading them, these are new space marines, more super soldiers than warrior monks. 

 

What actually dazzles me is how all these marines move around. Where did the Imperium procure thousands upon thousands of strike cruisers, tens of thousands of frigates, hundreds of battle barges. Where does the imperium get all the advanced materials and forges able to work them in order to keep its space marine legions operative. Remember, during the HH era, the growth of a legion was done in stages. Now all those stages are missing and I would really like to read an explanation how all this managed to be at such a short notice since the Great Rift opened. 

 

 

 

[Arkangilos]

On 6/4/2023 at 3:51 PM, Chainsword Cookie said:

What actually dazzles me is how all these marines move around. Where did the Imperium procure thousands upon thousands of strike cruisers, tens of thousands of frigates, hundreds of battle barges.

It doesn't have to be the current strike cruisers and such. I reckon that at first they used Imperial Navy ships seconded to them, or outright given to them for the campaign. They probably mostly just hitched a ride with the IG, though.

 

Not to mention, they can fit an entire chapter's worth on a battle barge, and even on a strike cruiser. 

 

A Battle Barge can probably actually hold several chapter's worth, it just can't deploy more than 300 simultaneously. 

Edited June 6, 2023 by Arkangilos

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

On 6/4/2023 at 3:51 PM, Chainsword Cookie said:

I would say around 2.500.000 - 3.000.000 from sanctioned, loyal, space marine bloodlines. Of these 1/4 died in the opening stages of the Indomitus Crusade which saw appalling casualties among the Primaris due to the inexperience and mechanistic/rote combat practices impressed upon them by Cawl. Keep in mind that these are effectively 25-40 years old marines who were grown en masse, armed and armoured en masse and with zero active combat experience. 

 

Fast forward to mid Indomitus Crusade I reckon that the numbers settled around 2.500.000. Most of which are now "brevet" chapters of the Ultima founding. At this stage the most experienced Primaris has 30+ years of combat experience. In the meanwhile the chapters kept recruiting so maybe 100 new marines per chapter, all Primaris, due to the simple fact that the Primaris are genetically stable and in some aspects superior, which allows for a more rapid growth/recruitment ratio. 

 

In the current timeline I reckon we have something like 3.000.000 marines and zero idea how the space marines in Imperium Nihilus fare. In these years recruitment is ongoing, I am positive that all the Cawl tech and the hundreds of thousands of Primaris pods still work and are being used. Think of them as the "harvest plants" of the old Word Bearers legion.

 

And this is all without considering that Cawl surely has stasis caskets full of Primaris made with the unsanctioned geneseed of the traitor legions. It is implied in his book, maybe just a bit of fan service, but a theory nonetheless. 

 

In the meanwhile every Chaos Space Marine which dies is probably the last of his breed. In no way, shape or form can the traitor legions and warbands of heretics replenish their numbers at such a rate that they can counter the Primaris legions. 

 

The trick here is simple, the current timeline is apocalyptic and the Imperium is staggering and bleeding manpower in such numbers that even with the influx of the Primaris is merely a trickle of warriors. The difference with how space marines operate is drastic though. Most of the Primaris fought alongside Primaris from other bloodlines, their strengths and weaknesses alloyed, integrated, enhanced. Also the chapters now act as proper armies, perform mass assaults, fight in set piece battles. It is a different era and with two primarchs leading them, these are new space marines, more super soldiers than warrior monks. 

 

What actually dazzles me is how all these marines move around. Where did the Imperium procure thousands upon thousands of strike cruisers, tens of thousands of frigates, hundreds of battle barges. Where does the imperium get all the advanced materials and forges able to work them in order to keep its space marine legions operative. Remember, during the HH era, the growth of a legion was done in stages. Now all those stages are missing and I would really like to read an explanation how all this managed to be at such a short notice since the Great Rift opened. 

 

 

 

I know 40k frigates are relatively small ships, but tens of thousands of frigates seems like a bit of a stretch…do you have a source for these numbers you’re throwing out?

[Arkangilos]

13 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

I know 40k frigates are relatively small ships, but tens of thousands of frigates seems like a bit of a stretch…

Never mind, in context I agree.

Edited June 6, 2023 by Arkangilos