True Scale vs. Heroic Scale

[Evil Eye]

3 hours ago, Lexington said:

There’s definitely more realistic proportions between different parts of most models’ bodies these days, yes, but are we sure Heroic Scale is completely gone?

 

Nah, that's "unheroic scale", a bold new movement which aims to have minis look as ungainly and ludicrous as possible!

 

More seriously, I personally prefer heroic scale for actual gaming pieces. Having models not be quite accurately sized is IMO an acceptable tradeoff to have a more playable game; as I've mentioned before, if we treat a Primaris Marine as a true-scaled Marine, a Rhino would have to be gargantuan to seat 10. I also find the actual aesthetic quite charming; I've started a mini-project of "Middlehammer Marines" using exclusively old-scale Marines out of a mixture of nostalgia and genuine appreciation for the older models. Notably some very nice Juan Diaz veterans.

 

Now for smaller-scale games like Kill Team, INQ28 etc, or for display-only models I'm more partial to true scale, at least in part because having less models on the table (and very few "big" models) makes true-scale more manageable.

[Rain]

2 hours ago, Brother Christopher said:

So, yeah, the Primaris line fixed a lot of OG Marines' problems (e.g., the tactical squat, the stubby-ness) but introduced a whole bunch of other problems that I don't see being discussed often. I suppose it's because Primaris are the new standard: they are taken for granted as "vastly superior" without much thought, while the older design/scale is being subjected to more critique and scrutiny.

Well, you know what they say, there’s no accounting for taste. FWIW, I agree with you. In fact, my distaste for the Primaris models (especially the tanks) dissuaded me from starting a Dark Angels army. The loss of the many marks of iconic PA in exchange for designs that look like Halo Spartans to me is a travesty. But, more back on topic:

 

Speaking solely on scale, and not FB vs Primaris, so, say the upscaled Chaos models, I don’t mind the updated scale as much as I mind all of the fiddly bits and trim, and random nonsense that designers throw on in CAD because it’s easy to do. When models were handsculpted, I feel like the focus was more on creating a clean, cohesive overall design that looked unique and striking, and not just about increasing the “feature count.”

 

Now, it’s just too busy. Trim everywhere, and little spikes on the trim, and little skulls molded into the trim, and it all just feels busy and overwhelming to the eye. Like @Brother Christopher says, it’s less than the sum of its very many parts.

[Doghouse]

8 hours ago, Redcomet said:

Redoing the same kit again and again is sadly not a viable business model if you want growth. 

 

One way around it would be via a game like Kill team for infantry.

[Master Commander Ajax]

I prefer true scale (though not the comically bad lore that heralded it ).

[Warden-Paints]

I think GW still very much produce heroic scale miniatures. Infinity or Malifaux would be better examples of true scale (in my opinion of course.) New Cadians still have big heads, guns and hands, just better proportioned overall. 

[gideon stargreave]

I've come to thinking of it as "art scale". As others have mentioned, the new scultps are still obviously heroic. But the proportions are much better. The new minis much better represent the art, check out the stuff by Dave Taylor, and you see slightly bigger hands, and weapons, but more or less well proportioned limbs and so on. 

[ZeroWolf]

So sort of a true heroic scale then 

 

I can understand why some people might despair at seeing the newer figures next to their old collections, especially if we have memories connected to those figures.

 

For me personally, It's not much of an issue currently as I'm still rebuilding my collection and any older figures I have are boxed away. I think though, I'll like to see the evolution of styles (even if my meagre painting skills won't reflect it!).

[b1soul]

Bring back Saturnine Terminators and Furibundus Dreadnoughts

 

 

[ZeroWolf]

I was actually looking at both of them on eBay last night 

[b1soul]

There seems to be some nice modernised Furibundus available to be 3D printed

 

 

 

[Orange Knight]

That 3D printer version looks way better, but the design still has nothing in common with the modern Imperium aesthetic, unfortunately. 

[jaxom]

46 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

That 3D printer version looks way better, but the design still has nothing in common with the modern Imperium aesthetic, unfortunately. 

Modern Marine aesthetic perhaps.

 

[Cactus]

I don't know if it's down to ignorance, GW diktat, or a conscious design choice but I do wish video game developers would lean away from the heroic scale. It's digital! You don't have to make the same compromises as somebody designing for a 3d moulding process! Yet all we see is animated models that look just like the tabletop models!

 

Sorry. I've wanted to get that out for a while and this seemed like an appropriate place.

[Warden-Paints]

On 4/17/2023 at 6:18 AM, Cactus said:

I don't know if it's down to ignorance, GW diktat, or a conscious design choice but I do wish video game developers would lean away from the heroic scale. It's digital! You don't have to make the same compromises as somebody designing for a 3d moulding process! Yet all we see is animated models that look just like the tabletop models!

 

Sorry. I've wanted to get that out for a while and this seemed like an appropriate place.

 

You want video game models to match Games Workshop art though, surely? 

[ZeroWolf]

2 hours ago, Warden-Paints said:

 

You want video game models to match Games Workshop art though, surely? 

Funnily enough, that's what GW wants as well, so it's doing the right job. Incidentally, it also makes it easier if you want to copy a unit from a game onto the table top

[b1soul]

4 hours ago, Warden-Paints said:

 

You want video game models to match Games Workshop art though, surely? 

 

You want video game models to match GW art, but I think he's saying video game models don't need to match the proportions of GW tabletop...which was heroic scale for a long time.

 

I think the models in the 2011 Space Marine video game were much better proportioned than tabletop heroic scale though...so maybe he's referring to Dawn of War or 40K mobile games

[Cactus]

Yes, I'm saying that heroic scale's large weapons and overall chunkiness could be dialled back a bit in video games. I want them to still echo GW's visual design, but take more advantage of the more refined modelling options available in a digital format. Have you seen the size of the hammers in Chaos Gate?

[jaxom]

23 hours ago, Cactus said:

Have you seen the size of the hammers in Chaos Gate?

I like Chaos Gate because it went all in and everything is stylized and consistent. My brain gets the BSoD when there's two different styles right next to each other. Once the plastic Cadians were out-heroic scaling Space Marines, ooph.