Louise Sugden has gone Rogue

[Redcomet]

19 minutes ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

Sometimes it isn't always even top down as far as the worst parts of it. Even a single mid level manager in a position they shouldn't be in can devastate a team, especially if nobody at the top level is paying attention.

I have been there as a middle manager. Some of my colleagues where seriously incompetent, but where excellent in appearing as is they where good managers, always knowing which behinds to kiss. 

[Evil Eye]

51 minutes ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

Sometimes it isn't always even top down as far as the worst parts of it. Even a single mid level manager in a position they shouldn't be in can devastate a team, especially if nobody at the top level is paying attention.

Agreed here. My housing association has really helpful, friendly workmen who come in to resolve issues, and the top brass are very courteous and responsive when given information about problems...but the middle-men who get the information FROM the top-end TO the working guys are utterly useless.

[Redcomet]

In my current job I have had 5 middle managers above me in the 14 years I have been here. 1 who took a delight in being cruel to the staff and meting out punishment, he got promoted quickly, 3 who made a lifestyle out of doing as little as possible yet taking credit for everything and 1 who was truly fantastic, empathetic and nice. The last one left quickly again. Now I am on nr 6 who I haven’t seen yet, despite it being 3 months since he started 

 

Thinking about it, I think Rogue Hobbies is meant to include more freelancers in the future. Because why wouldn’t she have launched it using her name. I could see other presenters from GW join her in the future as the channel grows and its income can sustain more than one person. 

[Kastor Krieg]

On 4/8/2023 at 4:41 PM, alfred_the_great said:

There’s always a natural rhythm of people moving on - it’s nowt to do with toxicity (unless someone comes out and says it is).

They (Peachy) have. It's a fethshow of "kids who got into GW as their first job and stayed on forever, with everything that implies". He called out toxicity, manipulation, micromanagement, minimal or zero budgets, time pressure and other odious workplace practices.

I'm extremely glad for Louise that she's away from that cesspool and "free to speak about painting Warhammer minis again" (sic!).

 

[spessmarine]

3 hours ago, Redcomet said:

Thinking about it, I think Rogue Hobbies is meant to include more freelancers in the future. Because why wouldn’t she have launched it using her name. I could see other presenters from GW join her in the future as the channel grows and its income can sustain more than one person. 

Add in Peachy, Duncan, and whoever else left to form NegaWarCom

[appiah4]

On 4/9/2023 at 12:36 PM, Redcomet said:

Peachy has been talking a lot about GW cultere since he left, and it has the same problems most other large companies I have worker at, heard about. And I have to imagine that trying to squeeze creative people into a corporate mould isn’t something that will be successful. 

Peachy is just fantastic.

 

The whole Chlamydia Map thing he talked about on TPP  made me spray coffee all over my car.

 

You can just hear it in his voice, these people want to love GW so much, but resent it so bad.. It's sad..

[Petitioner's City]

On 4/8/2023 at 1:51 PM, Warden-Paints said:

 

It seems to me that she's left because she can make a lot more money by building her brand (which she has announced), and she has momentum behind her due to her work for GW (my assessment). As just one example, she believes she can charge £1500 for a painted miniature.

 

To somehow take the above information and extrapolate that she's fleeing a toxic workplace is absurd unless she comes out and states that to be the reason. 

 

That to me is hyperbole, but by all means let's agree to disagree. 

 

You should start here, it's really snappy about the move to hands, and what it reflects of the wider culture. And they mention Sugden too!

 

 

 

This is also good:

 

 

 

And this covers an earlier part of career:

 

 

 

And this too:

 

 

 

I hope they interview her soon!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Stitch5000]

On 4/9/2023 at 6:02 PM, Kastor Krieg said:

They (Peachy) have. It's a fethshow of "kids who got into GW as their first job and stayed on forever, with everything that implies". He called out toxicity, manipulation, micromanagement, minimal or zero budgets, time pressure and other odious workplace practices.

I'm extremely glad for Louise that she's away from that cesspool and "free to speak about painting Warhammer minis again" (sic!).

 

We really need to take into account the confirmation bias in effect here... We're literally only talking to the people that have actively LEFT or have been FIRED by GW. There are thousands of people still there that are having a great time. 

What doesn't seem to be well understood is that GW does not exist to make individuals famous. Their content (advertising, we should probably start refering to it as what it is) is not about making people look at the presenter's face, It's about showcasing the product. 

The people that have left are clearly motivated to put their face in the frame when it comes to talking about their hobby, because that's what they have continued to do in their new ventures. 

[sarabando]

23 minutes ago, Stitch5000 said:

We really need to take into account the confirmation bias in effect here... We're literally only talking to the people that have actively LEFT or have been FIRED by GW. There are thousands of people still there that are having a great time. 

What doesn't seem to be well understood is that GW does not exist to make individuals famous. Their content (advertising, we should probably start refering to it as what it is) is not about making people look at the presenter's face, It's about showcasing the product. 

The people that have left are clearly motivated to put their face in the frame when it comes to talking about their hobby, because that's what they have continued to do in their new ventures. 

Yeah abusers/toxic people often don't see themselves as such. So the idea of confirmation bias doesnt really match here. GW doesn't exist to make these people famous you are correct however the fact that these people are "famous" and GW has made a move to stop it happening again is a clear indication that they know how important branding is in today's market. Some kid sees Duncan's face next to a two thin coats paint rack and he's gonna get some neurons firing. 

 

Gw can't capitalise on this because their environment is toxic and in an abusive relationship if you can't control you destroy. 

[Stitch5000]

5 minutes ago, sarabando said:

Yeah abusers/toxic people often don't see themselves as such. So the idea of confirmation bias doesnt really match here. GW doesn't exist to make these people famous you are correct however the fact that these people are "famous" and GW has made a move to stop it happening again is a clear indication that they know how important branding is in today's market. Some kid sees Duncan's face next to a two thin coats paint rack and he's gonna get some neurons firing. 

 

Gw can't capitalise on this because their environment is toxic and in an abusive relationship if you can't control you destroy. 

Why do you insist that GW is a toxic environment? Do you have any experience of working there?

[Joe]

Worth noting that people on this server come from a pretty broad range of countries with varying cultural norms in office spaces; what's considered toxic in one country might be considered pretty normal elsewhere.

 

On a fun note; I still remember James Hewitt recanting his wage rant after he realised that wages in the UK are much lower compared to the US.

 

[Stitch5000]

5 minutes ago, Joe said:

On a fun note; I still remember James Hewitt recanting his wage rant after he realised that wages in the UK are much lower compared to the US.

 

Trying to ransom wages out of your management never works so great... It certainly hasn't for me... 

Wasn't there a big news story about GW staff getting a massive profit share shortly after he left? 

[Orange Knight]

The reason why I don't jump on these GW hate wagons is because I know people who work there, and I'm not talking about my local store manager. There isn't some toxic culture seeping down every wall in every office.

 

I have no doubt that people don't always get along or get what they want, and that disagreements happen and potentials go unfulfilled, but that's the same everywhere.

 

It's worth remembering that the people that have left will definitely have an opinion bias, one way or another. And it's worth keeping in mind that GW aren't in the business of making certain individuals into household names, so how much they encourage or prevent this is entirely up to them.

Edited April 11, 2023 by Orange Knight

[appiah4]

When it's one person, you might have grounds to call it confirmation bias.  When people are leaving in droves and citing the same thing, you might just be a corporate apologist.

[Joe]

To be fair, we've seen a grand total of three (four?) people leave in a public manner out of the several thousand that the company actually employs; some of whom left after a decade to two decade long career at the company, which isn't really that common anymore. That's not droves.

 

Let's try to keep the hyperbole to a minimum.

[Orange Knight]

16 hours ago, appiah4 said:

When it's one person, you might have grounds to call it confirmation bias.  When people are leaving in droves and citing the same thing, you might just be a corporate apologist.

 

Sure, but they have things in common too. One of those things being that GW doesn't want to facilitate their cults of personality.

 

That doesn't mean it's a toxic environment, it simply means GW doesn't want pseudo-celebrities being affiliated, because that can bring as much trouble as it does benefits.

 

One example being these few people creating a bad image of the company when they leave, despite the fact that thousands of people are happy and some staffers being there for 20+ years.

 

We are all inclined to believe an individual over a faceless corporate entity, but as I said, I know people that work at HQ who are perfectly happy.

[Stitch5000]

5 minutes ago, appiah4 said:

When it's one person, you might have grounds to call it confirmation bias.  When people are leaving in droves and citing the same thing, you might just be a corporate apologist.

Which "droves" exactly?

[Stitch5000]

3 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

some staffers being there for 20+ years.

There's a few that are closer to 40 years than they are 20... 

[Petitioner's City]

42 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

One example being these few people creating a bad image of the company when they leave, despite the fact that thousands of people are happy and some staffers being there for 20+ years.

 

We are all inclined to believe an individual over a faceless corporate entity, but as I said, I know people that work at HQ who are perfectly happy.

 

But I think the main person we are referring to - Peachy - is overwhelmingly positive about the company, his former colleagues, the game designers, etc. It's certain management issues which are the thing here. I do feel his words have been massively overstated (which is why they should actually be listened to!).

 

Of course GW was once a company of people we could all know somewhat well through GW's own media and also through other industry sources - the founders, the early designers of games (Priestley, Jervis, Chambers, etc), the second/third generation (Gav, Pirinen, Warwick Kinrade, then in time Graham McNeil, Phil Kelly, Andy Hoare, etc), miniature designers we knew well (the Perrys and Goodwin most famously, but many others too), the painters and modellers (Mike McVey for example), the white dwarf staff (Fat Bloke! And many others), the forge world staff (Warwick, Contrell, then Bligh and Fox and Wylie, etc), it's artists (Blanche, Gibbons, etc), the early BL writers, etc.

 

All felt like people, who were presented as people, a vast cast of characters we'd encounter from time to time like the extended cast of the Archers. And honestly that soap-esque encounter was good :)

Really GW had many "cults of personality" - but that made it strong in the past.

 

Yes, for some well known figures that did indeed lead to separate business ventures (various games design companies especially!), as well as staff leaving to be freelancers who came back to work, while others stayed with the company it seems for good. It's a difficult thing for a creative company to not emphasise it's talent - it is the talent who augment the business, with talents' soft power capital being a potent tool for a creative business to take advantage of (GW did do that in the "modern" period with Blanchitsu, for example).

 

 

[AenarIT]

From what I've heard, GW does pay handsomely a few of their employees (at least some 'Eavy Metal painters, some sculptors, ...). Otherwise they wouldn't be able to retain them.
Seeing so many "public faces" leave the company makes me think top management doesn't consider them as important/crucial/difficult to replace as the ones they do pay well. 
They must have thought that Duncan, Peachy, Louise, ... were just painters they put in front of a camera, underestimating the exposure they were able to get this way.

[WARMASTER_]

On the topic of Rouge Hobbies itself, I really enjoyed Louise’s first video deep dive into a super niece chapter! I hope she does more videos like that in future 

[Orange Knight]

6 minutes ago, WARMASTER_ said:

On the topic of Rouge Hobbies itself, I really enjoyed Louise’s first video deep dive into a super niece chapter! I hope she does more videos like that in future 

 

Yeah, it was great and she is a natural, also her painting skills are probably going to be far beyond my reach for the duration of my life...

[Kastor Krieg]

2 hours ago, Stitch5000 said:

Why do you insist that GW is a toxic environment? Do you have any experience of working there?

Why do you insist they aren't? Do you?

Because I actually have. I've worked with GW staff in retail, I've worked with GW staff in IP management. I've also heard many stories from people at high places - both GW and Black Library. I've heard what Peachy and Duncan had to say, how not only they were treated, but people around them.

How they are not bashing the entire organization and all people in GW HQ - how they say there are tons of inspired hobbyists, authors, artists. And yet, there is a toxic culture, micromanagement, disparagement of achievements, lack of recognition, wages are actually poor and budgets are tiny or non-existent. Just listen to the vids linked above and to the stories how the processes around photography were handled. How the artists were treated in Eavy Metal.

People don't quit companies. People quit bosses. And some of the bosses at GW are what Peachy and Dunc and others say they are - juvenile, vindictive, toxic. That's enough to run people out of the door, even though they're stating that they're quitting their dream job.

[Rusted Boltgun]

3 hours ago, Petitioner's City said:

 

I hope they interview her soon!

 

 

 

A recent Insta post showed Peachy with Louise so let's hope so. OTOH, it may just have been her GW 'leaving do'!

 

I'm a fan of the Painting Phase and a WH+ subscriber. 

 

Whilst I quite enjoyed Louise's first video, it is clear that her main content is going behind a paywall and the lowest tier of that is £5 a month, plus that doesn't give you long-form painting tutorials. On that basis, I'll stick to WH+.

 

Rogue does look like it could have some cool content in  the future but I don't have a 3D printer or £30 month for that tier.

 

I have to say though, she is a great loss to GW and the recent ' dubbed and hands only' painting tutorial left me cold. Strange when someone like Sonic Sledgehammer does it so well. 

[Kastor Krieg]

GW won't get rid of the Only Hands and Warhammer- memes for years.