thoughts on 10th?

[Rogue]

Yeah, not keen on new overwatch. Now we can be shot before we move, after we move, when we ambush, when we charge, even after we charge in some cases.

 

Getting into combat with flamer units (or anything else with Torrent) is going to be a nightmare.

[brother_b]

I have no desire to run a ton of neophytes even though they’re 

my favorite minis in the line. I wanted a large block of them but also want to use all of the other interesting minis and units.
 

Im really trying to wrap my head around why we’re basically Tyranid necrons.

Ambush was so cool. Never got a chance to play it.
 

I really loved the idea of spreading my characters around; using my patriarch as a beat stick, my primus as a buffer ad he lurked behind the throng of neophytes.

 

Meh I’m an edition too late it seems by the time I’ll get my army up and running.

[Rogue]

Hopefully 10th will allow for list that aren't finely-tuned tournament-ready forces to still be competitive in regular games. 

 

I've played a few games recently when I've taken different units, and have felt at a disadvantage for a lot of the game, because they just don't bring as much as my regular picks, and I can't afford to accommodate that when it's already tricky to win some match-ups.

[Zoatibix]

A sentiment I very much echo. I am a wilfully casual player but even at our fairly laidback local club, I’ve had to increasingly adapt my lists so as not to run into a ‘brick wall’.

[brother_b]

I do understand those sentiments for sure it’s an unfortunate reality of all armies. Still, I guess my hang up now is that my vision of what the game and army were going to be is not what 10th is lining them up to be.

 

Im hoping my patriarch is more than a genestealer hall monitor or bus driver in the sense he can only group with 1 maybe 2 units.

 

I wanted him to be the focus of adoration for my whole army!

[Rogue]

This is a soft answer, but - your fluff is what you want it to be. How you treat the Patriarch and how he plays are two different things.

 

That said, I also get it. It's much better when fluff and gameplay align. 

 

Perhaps try to think of him less as a bus-driver, and more as surrounded by his adoring gene-brothers, who fight that much harder in his presence.

[brother_b]

Head cannon is very important but yes the translation to the game may not happen but it does make the immersion that much more complete.

[Rogue]

Talking of the Patriarch - battleshock and Cosmic Horror. How's that going to play out?

 

A battleshocked unit loses OC, takes wounds if it falls back, and can't use stratagems. But potentially triggering all that in the fight phase means we won't get the full benefits, because battleshock resets at the start of the opponent's command phase.

 

Assuming it goes off, the enemy unit loses OC. But objectives aren't scored until the command phase, so they may get OC back before it matters. Likewise falling back - this won't apply until the move phase, which is after the next round of battleshock tests.

 

It does prevent the enemy using stratagems to affect the fight, which is good; but the timing of things means it won't switch off Heroic Intervention or Overwatch, both of which happen in the charge phase (before Cosmic Horror kicks in).

 

Maybe the most useful side of this will be if it triggers in the opponent's fight phase (the rule seems to work in both fight phases) - if that happens, the enemy unit will be battleshocked through the whole of our turn. This still won't matter for falling back, but makes the no-stratagem thing more useful, and means we have an opportunity to exploit the lack of OC.

 

[Zoatibix]

Yeah, it doesn’t seem that it does much if it goes off in our turn. Just turn off Strats?

 

Which could be useful, but as you point out, it’s not going to have a chance to trigger several Battleshock effects.

 

If I have understood my skim reading of the new rules:

 

Beginning of Command Phase - gain CP

Middle - Battleshock tests

End - score VP

 

It is also a problem for things like the Carnifex causing BS tests (BSTs?). 

 

Edited June 4, 2023 by Zoatibix

[Rogue]

I may have stumbled across a curious rules interaction (or I may be very slow at realising something that everyone else has known for ages).

 

In the new combat phase, the defender always gets to go first if they have eligible units in the Fight First phase, and then again in the Everyone Else phase. Usually, that's not going to matter because charging units fight first and most other units don't. So most of the time, I charge you, I hit you, you hit me back; then, in your turn, I hit you first again. In a hero-on-hero combat, that can be vital - getting the second hit in before your opponent can be the difference between victory and death. 

 

And in isolation, there's not much you can do about it if you get charged. Your opponent hits you first in his turn, and hits you first again in your turn. Unless you can throw charging troops into that specific combat, your own fights first fights elsewhere on the board won't matter - they all happen first, but then your opponent's hero can still go first in the Everyone Else phase.

 

Unless your opponent has a unit in combat with the Fights First ability (like the Tyranids' Leapers). If that's the case, your opponent must pick them to fight first, at which point you can use Counter-Charge to leapfrog your hero into fighting next, before his hero gets in that crucial second punch. (Counter-charge only works after an opponent has fought. In your turn, that's usually going to be after a key model or unit has fought in the Everyone Else phase. The opposition having a Fight First unit in combat gives us much earlier access to the stratagem.) It's pretty niche, but might come in handy sometimes. We could even force it, by charging into the Fights First unit ourselves with something that won't kill them (or can wait and kill them after they fight). Again, our opponent must trigger the unit to fight (you can't 'pass' a turn), allowing us to counter-charge within our own turn. 

 

Of course, this might also count against us, should we gain any Fights First cult units.