New Genestealers

[Rogue]

Okay, they're not strictly a GSC unit, but it's likely that our version will be pretty similar. So what's changed?

 

GAIN

2 wounds instead of 1

Free scout movement of 8"

Always reroll 1s to wound, or full rerolls against something holding an objective

 

LOSS

Save down to 5+

Invulnerable save down to 5++

Leadership down (probably - depends a bit on how the system works overall)

Down to AP-2

Advance and charge is gone

 

Again, Cult Stealers may be different in places, but this is what we have to work with for now.

 

New Stealers are more survivable against damage 1 weapons, due to having 2 wounds; they're less survivable against anything else, due to the 5++ save.

 

They're move likely to wound, but less likely to beat the save. Reroll 1s is a flat 17% increase in wounds; 1 less AP is, crudely, 17% the other way, but tends to be more complex in practice. Into a 3+ save, we'll see twice as many attacks saved. Boo.

 

Losing advance and charge is painful. It's slightly offset if every stealer brood can move up 8", but scout moves may happen before we know who's going first, making that a big gamble; and they may not synergise with blips (if blips are still a thing).

 

Overall, they're still feel like a melee threat, but have lost mobility, survivability and maybe some of their hitting power. 

 

You may disagree, of course. So, what do we think? 

Edited May 8, 2023 by Rogue

[brother_b]

I think everything is losing lethality, so the reduction in AP doesn’t surprise me.

 

Losing advance and charge is huge but we may get that back with army rules or a stratagem, a la the marine doctrine they previewed. 
 

I really have no idea how they’ll work out the intricacies of the current codex. I’ve never played a game as I’m still making my army and I’m a little bummed about that.

[Zoatibix]

It does make me wonder how glass cannon units are meant to work. Having such a unit ‘bounce’ off an enemy and then get kicked in the metaphorical junk is painful, IME.

 

I would have preferred more damage output to having an extra wound, for one thing.

[Ulfast]

I´m a little bit sceptical. I tihnk our current version is better but we will wait and see. Most disappointed thing about stealers; no new sculpts! Please, let us have proper cool new sculpts of them.

[Rogue]

I'd really like them to go back to having 'muscle backs' like the original Space Hulk models, rather than the current armoured backs.

 

I have two models that date from somewhere between those two extremes - newer-looking sculpts, but not the armoured ones - but I have no idea where I got them from. They're my favourite stealer look so far.

[brother_b]

We should also consider the possibility of having our genestealers  gaining abilities with whatever type of faction or cult we get that the new edition brings. Hopefully that will also mitigate some of the loss of their old rules.

 

Although not necessarily related to Genestealers, I also suspect that we are going to have to attach our characters to specific units. I wonder if Genestealers will be able to benefit from this.

[Rogue]

True - imagine getting army-wide advance and charge :)

 

Genestealers running with a Patriarch would be interesting.

[Xenith]

On 5/8/2023 at 12:34 PM, Rogue said:

I have two models that date from somewhere between those two extremes - newer-looking sculpts, but not the armoured ones - but I have no idea where I got them from. They're my favourite stealer look so far.

 

Deathwatch:Overkill perhaps - the first instance of GSC models. I think that came with 2x purestrains. Hopefully we could go back to those sculpts - the current ones and space hulk ones were like, 2009 ish, while the DW:O ones were maybe 2015/2016?

Edited May 9, 2023 by Xenith

[Dr. Clock]

On 5/3/2023 at 6:36 PM, Zoatibix said:

Having such a unit ‘bounce’ off an enemy and then get kicked in the metaphorical junk is painful, IME.

That it be for sure, but I think the solution here is to rein in points on this kind of heat-seeker so that we can take multiples more easily.

 

Now that slots are blown wide open, taking 3x5 for 225-285 just to push the envelope and get in the way seems legit, and maybe 2x5 and 1x10 w/ Broodlord for under 500 pts?

 

In the last list you could tell that they couldn't really tell how to make stealers interesting compared to the other Elites and they just turned their aggro to 11. A 4++ just seems silly as a purely physical dodge/sneak save tbh. Going to 2W is the one thing they didn't try before, and I think it could help alot in terms of internal balance for GSC and Nids both.

 

The AP reduction is likewise to be expected. Most things are seemingly unlikely to have both weight of attacks and AP-3 standard.

 

You can bet that there are going to be some intense Deep-Strike shenanigans in GSC, and that seems more likely as a delivery system for GSC than Nids than advance and charge, although a Broodlord ability for that doesn't seem far-fetched. Based on the way other previews have indicated more focus on 'whether units are on or near objectives', I guess Ambush could basically turn objectives into tunnel entrances by letting us deepstrike more than 7" from any enemy unit contesting an objective, or outside 3" if the the Deep-Striking unit doesn't charge that turn? I half expect Crossfire to just be an army-wide Sustained Hits or the like specifically against anything on an objective.

 

I think I'm just hopeful that we get some simpler versions of Ambush and Crossfire that mean we can forget about the Proficient Planning layer of upgrades which end up being too much micro for my liking.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.