Book theory

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Spoiler

A seemingly popular theory has already been spoiled for me, but apparently there’s a theory that the Lion’s purpose is to help bring sanguinius back.

I’m annoyed this has already been spoiled for me as I haven’t even had a chance to pick up the lion’s new book yet.

[Jolemai]

I have no idea what this topic is supposed to be. Could you elaborate a bit more please?

 

So you've seen people talking about a particular book you haven't read?

Are you after a discussion about the spoilered content (which is a comment from someone else outside of the B&C?

 

 

 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, Jolemai said:

I have no idea what this topic is supposed to be. Could you elaborate a bit more please?

 

So you've seen people talking about a particular book you haven't read?

Are you after a discussion about the spoilered content (which is a comment from someone else outside of the B&C?

 

 

 

Spoiler

In the new lion book, there’s a part where lion meets the emperor or someone believed to be the emperor sitting at a table. On the table is a chalice and a bloody spear. Lion asks the wrong question and the emperor kicks him out of the vision.

 

the theory is that lion’s job is to bring sanguinius back

 

[lansalt]

14 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

  Reveal hidden contents

In the new lion book, there’s a part where lion meets the emperor or someone believed to be the emperor sitting at a table. On the table is a chalice and a bloody spear. Lion asks the wrong question and the emperor kicks him out of the vision.

 

the theory is that lion’s job is to bring sanguinius back

 

There are so many arthurian references in the book that it could be anything. Personally I was reminded of Percival's quest and visions in Excalibur:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61nCIyBCmjg

 

 

[Karhedron]

7 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

  Reveal hidden contents

A seemingly popular theory has already been spoiled for me, but apparently there’s a theory that the Lion’s purpose is to help bring sanguinius back.

I’m annoyed this has already been spoiled for me as I haven’t even had a chance to pick up the lion’s new book yet.

 

Spoiler

In the new lion book, there’s a part where lion meets the emperor or someone believed to be the emperor sitting at a table. On the table is a chalice and a bloody spear. Lion asks the wrong question and the emperor kicks him out of the vision.

 

the theory is that lion’s job is to bring sanguinius back

 

That is the first I have heard about it and that is a pretty tenuous connection. I don't think that is what it is about at all. The Dark Angels are heavily influenced by Arthurian myth. Lion El' Johnson is basically Arthur, returning in the hour of direst need.

 

In Arthurian myth, the quest for Holy Grail is sometimes in order to heal the mythical Fisher King (the Emperor) who is wounded and thus restore the fertility of the land. The Chalice could be a Blood Angels reference but it seems unlikely given the context. I suspect it is more a nod to the Holy Grail, perhaps sending Johnson on some quest to try and heal the Emperor.

 

I doubt they will actually heal the Emperor as this would be too massive an upheaval of the setting. But having Johnson go off on some sort of quest would be very in character and also opens the possibility of far more stories than if he just stayed on the Rock and took over running the Unforgiven. One plot line that springs to mind is that this is more likely to lead to the return of Russ. Russ disappeared 297 years after the Heresy, also apparently going on a quest to cure the Emperor. I could see Johnson going off questing and not finding the cure but finding another brother along the way.

 

That would also tie in with the blood spear. In Wolfsbane, the Emperor gave Russ a special spear to fight Horus with. Russ failed to kill Horus but did manage to seriously wound him, hence the blood on the spear in the vision.

 

In any case, I am not sure how posting in this section is going to help. Spoilers are an occupational hazard of the internet age.

Edited May 4, 2023 by Karhedron

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

7 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

In the new lion book, there’s a part where lion meets the emperor or someone believed to be the emperor sitting at a table. On the table is a chalice and a bloody spear. Lion asks the wrong question and the emperor kicks him out of the vision.

 

the theory is that lion’s job is to bring sanguinius back

 

That is the first I have heard about it and that is a pretty tenuous connection. I don't think that is what it is about at all. The Dark Angels are heavily influenced by Arthurian myth. Lion El' Johnson is basically Arthur, returning in the hour of direst need.

 

In Arthurian myth, the quest for Holy Grail is sometimes in order to heal the mythical Fisher King (the Emperor) who is wounded and thus restore the fertility of the land. The Chalice could be a Blood Angels reference but it seems unlikely given the context. I suspect it is more a nod to the Holy Grail, perhaps sending Johnson on some quest to try and heal the Emperor.

 

I doubt they will actually heal the Emperor as this would be too massive an upheaval of the setting. But having Johnson go off on some sort of quest would be very in character and also opens the possibility of far more stories than if he just stayed on the Rock and took over running the Unforgiven. One plot line that springs to mind is that this is more likely to lead to the return of Russ. Russ disappeared 297 years after the Heresy, also apparently going on a quest to cure the Emperor. I could see Johnson going off questing and not finding the cure but finding another brother along the way.

 

That would also tie in with the blood spear. In Wolfsbane, the Emperor gave Russ a special spear to fight Horus with. Russ failed to kill Horus but did manage to seriously wound him, hence the blood on the spear in the vision.

 

In any case, I am not sure how posting in this section is going to help. Spoilers are an occupational hazard of the internet age.

that may be, it very well could be a bait and switch as those two items are very obviously related to BA. 

[Karhedron]

I think anyone claiming that scene is a spoiler is reading far too much into it at this stage. It is also worth remembering that GW have said on several occasions that they have no intention of bringing back the 4 confirmed dead Primarchs as their deaths are crucial to the character of their Legions/Chapters in 40K.

[Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla]

The theory leaves out important detail, namely that there are three items with the king: a spear, a chalice and a candelabra. It's a simple arthurian easter egg copied from Chrétien's Perceval. I doubt that Brooks intended anything more than give readers opportunity to discern a familiar literary motive (and he makes sure that more people will get it by going with arguably the most famous arthurian romance, the same reason why he goes for the green knight, the text often considered as pinnacle of the insular arthurian poetry and thus familiar to many British readers from school), a sort of a play with the people sharing similar cultural code. Maybe the king will have some significance in later books, but the items are there just to be as arthurian as possible.

[Lord_Ikka]

It is also something that occurs specifically in the Warp/Warp-adjacent forest, and that context is important. As with the shapeshifting all-Primarch daemon later, we can see that in the forest things do not always show their true imagery, nor should anything be taken for truth automatically.

 

To be honest, the theory smacks of BA fans really, really wanting Sanguinius to come back and looking for any little thing to point at and say "look, here it is, they're going to do it!", rather than a realistic foreshadowing of potential future occurrences. 

[Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla]

Btw, a frater on The Lion thread posted pics from Brooks' afterword, which mentions the arthurian references and basically confirms that one should not read too much into them.

Edited May 7, 2023 by Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla