Anyone going to Heresy with mini-marines? (new Epic HH game)

[DuskRaider]

Oh man… my namesake. Very tempting if someone comes up with GC rules. 

Oh man… my namesake. Very tempting if someone comes up with GC rules. 

[Gorgoff]

1 hour ago, Sherrypie said:

All infantry bases in that picture really do have five men to a base. The square ones at the front have five on a 20 x 20 mm base while the tacticals between the tanks are two rows of five on 40 x 12 mm strips pushed close to each other (you can see them staggered on the very left).

Oh you are right. 

I always assumed they are ten men bases. Hm.

In a line does look better than in a circle though. 

[Pacific81]

1 hour ago, DuskRaider said:

Oh man… my namesake. Very tempting if someone comes up with GC rules. 

Oh man… my namesake. Very tempting if someone comes up with GC rules. 

 

I'm currently using NetEpic rules for my GC-era World Eaters. The Net Armageddon or HeresyAU rules would probably contain more flavour, although it will be interesting to see what the new rules are going to be like and how much flexibility they contain.

[Gillyfish]

There are quite a few rulesets out there (particularly historical) which use base widths as units of measurement, so the number of models on a base (or their scale) is less important than the size of base. If New Epic is going to be (broadly) base shape and size agnostic then that's probably because it will use actual measurements and having a large base might be beneficial in some ways (fewer under a blast template) but bad in others (easier to see and can fit fewer in buildings, etc.).

[Bung]

1 hour ago, Gillyfish said:

There are quite a few rulesets out there (particularly historical) which use base widths as units of measurement, so the number of models on a base (or their scale) is less important than the size of base. If New Epic is going to be (broadly) base shape and size agnostic then that's probably because it will use actual measurements and having a large base might be beneficial in some ways (fewer under a blast template) but bad in others (easier to see and can fit fewer in buildings, etc.).

 

Old Epic Armageddon was rather loose with Base size and used cm as meassurements.

 

I expect them to have unified Base sizes for less confusion.

 

Like an infantry unit is this this base size with this number of models.

[Gorgoff]

Had old epic templates?

[Bung]

19 minutes ago, Gorgoff said:

Had old epic templates?

Epic Armageddon had them.

 

 

But i think the big ones we're only used by Space Ships.

 

[Pacific81]

Yes - Epic Space Marine had templates for blast weapons (barrages, used for artillery etc) and flamer templates, although only a couple of weapons used those - that one was the same size as a 40k flamer template from the time, IIRC.

 

@BungI think they have already said the system will be base agnostic. So I expect size restrictions, rather than control over shape (whole existing community exhaled a sigh of relief over that one!)

[Bung]

5 hours ago, Pacific81 said:

 

@BungI think they have already said the system will be base agnostic. So I expect size restrictions, rather than control over shape (whole existing community exhaled a sigh of relief over that one!)

 

The only thing i read was about base height as the AT Titans use old bases which are higher then the new Epic Bases but you should be able to use both heights.

But they didnt mention size or shape of the new bases for Infantry for the new rules.

 

[Pacific81]

13 minutes ago, Bung said:

 

The only thing i read was about base height as the AT Titans use old bases which are higher then the new Epic Bases but you should be able to use both heights.

But they didnt mention size or shape of the new bases for Infantry for the new rules.

 

One of the community posts said that while the game came with round bases for infantry, other base shapes would be permissible.

[Noserenda]

Theyve confirmed 25mm for Infantry and dreadnoughts in few places too. Like with most of their rules over the years the exact base shape isnt so important, they all have minor advantages and problems, this will be the third type of official base now :D 

Ive already got a few maniples of titans and a whole buttload of knights, im looking forward to recreating or expanding on my 32mm heresy armies, starting with the Alpha Legion 1st Armoured ;) Im kinda excited by mixed armies too, both my White Scars and Blood Angels were siege era, though i doubt the former will fit well into modern heresy orgs epic might well be flexible enough to be close.

[MegaVolt87]

Probably not. The pricing for Titanicus + Aeonautica ensured they were pretty much DOA here in Australia. I'm not confident the pricing will be decent. 

[Bung]

9 hours ago, Pacific81 said:

One of the community posts said that while the game came with round bases for infantry, other base shapes would be permissible.

 

We will see. 

But in the end i probably do movement trays for Infantry and small Tank Squadrons like Predators.

[Doghouse]

I personally think that Epic is the best way to represent the Heresy. I think the main advantages of this kind of game is they are extremely forgiving to paint especially with contrasts these days and for the most part concerning infantry should be pretty quick to assemble. When I was a nipper we all had fully panted armies and played the original fanatically even playing 24 hour games on school holidays.

 

I'm hoping Titans will be interesting. I wanted to get into Titanicus but through a lack of interest locally was never able to get into it sadly so I am hoping by having more accessible rules there will be more players. I'd like to do a small knight household with some marine allies so it'll be interesting to see how this works. 

 

I'm not convinced just yet that this will be a runaway success. This is very much a niche within a niche set within a niche part of history for the game so I expect a lot of hype and excitement followed by a return of focus for most people to regular 40k. I'm hoping I am wrong but this feels more like it will be a splash release.

[Gillyfish]

I hope you are wrong too. Epic was the first GW game I saw and wanted (40k did not have as much appeal back then as it was 'just' a skirmish game).

 

Hopefully if the rules and models are good it will carve out a good niche and survive in the way that Titanicus appears to.

[Pacific81]

Definitely agree Doghouse and it used to be the same for me. At the time I got into 2nd ed. Epic it was also one of the most accessible games because everything was fairly reasonably priced. This was at the tale end of Rogue Trader, and 40k was all over the place as a product line and difficult to get into prior to 2nd edition being launched. Epic was much more straightforward, some big box sets with everything you needed, and they were reasonably priced too compared to the 40k metal blister packs. All of my friends and I played Epic, and we had pretty good collections. 

 

And I think you are right that the price will be key. My worry here is when I keep reading adjectives such as 'boutique' and 'artisan' about these miniatures, suddenly you're in Harrods and everything costs 50% more than it probably should do, and if it's priced too high you are only going to attract the grognards that played it first time around, like myself, and not prompt any younger players to give it a go. Similarly the painting of the original game was always super simple; now I see some lunatic has painted eye lenses on the marines in the official photos. If I have to paint each one of these guys like he is a tiny 40k miniature, rather than an Epic miniature, you can kiss those massive battlefields of hundreds of tanks and infantry (which was always Epic's greatest appeal) goodbye.

 

So I am still hopeful (and a glass-half-full viewpoint is, even if it crashes and burn the Epic communities will grow - they have already grown in fact), I just hope GW can produce something good, without falling into one of the obvious pitfalls that lie in the path of the game's success. 

[Sherrypie]

5 hours ago, Pacific81 said:

Similarly the painting of the original game was always super simple; now I see some lunatic has painted eye lenses on the marines...

 

... but if I like it like that ?

[Gorgoff]

I am sure as hell won't do more than contrast paints on those little foots.

[Pacific81]

1 hour ago, Sherrypie said:

 

... but if I like it like that ?

Yes, well you don't paint like mortal men Sherrypie!

[Bung]

9 hours ago, Sherrypie said:

 

... but if I like it like that ?

 

Then i hope you drill your Bolter Barrels too.

[Gillyfish]

Having recently been painting 6mm Napoleonics and painting mustaches on some of the men, eye lenses should be possible and it should be achievable without taking a huge amount of additional time. There is definitely a different approach to be adopted to painting in smaller scales. The game changer for me was first gluing the models to lollipop sticks and painting them on those then gluing them to the base and painting/flocking the base. The main thing to do is block out the colours first then give everything a shade. If necessary, a quick highlight (rare), but then you are basically done.

 

I note from the most recent article that they have indicated that the new game borrows heavily from second edition (although they are keen to emphasise that they are different games). I suspect that means set unit sizes (a squadron of Predator tanks may mean three Predators, for example) and you may buy infantry companies before you buy them support squadrons, but we shall see. I would anticipate a more modern approach to rules design with a standardised set of special rules/traits and then those applied to each unit profile.

 

Be interesting to see whether weapons have a unified profile or whether there is a difference between anti-armour and anti-infantry.

[Gorgoff]

 

Looking at it this* I'm wondering if you can just use the buildings from the Hotel board game as terrain for the first few games.

 

This probably looks a little bit silly, but before playing without any terrain at all.... worth it?

 

*found it in the recent article on https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/07/18/legions-imperialis-the-epic-history-of-small-scale-warhammer/

Edited July 20, 2023 by Gorgoff

[Valkyrion]

The pink one looks like the Grand Budapest Hotel. 

[Dezron]

Welcome your Tiny (but heavy) Fire support:

 

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/07/20/heresy-thursday-tiny-fire-support-incoming-for-legions-imperialis/

 

Quote

Every model in this article is available in the Legiones Astartes Support box, which contains four Leviathan Dreadnoughts, four Deredeo Dreadnoughts, four Rapier batteries – and their miniscule crew – alongside four Tarantula Batteries, all in plastic.

 

[Guest]

Yes I am redirecting my Sons ot Epic. :)