Forgeworld Ebay Purchase - Is it a recast?

[Etruscan]

Hello,

 

I hope this is the appropriate forum to post this. I purchased the Casan Sabius/Kirae Karagon diorama from Ebay as the pictures looked legitimate and the seller had positive feedback. However on receiving it I have my reservations on its authenticity.

 

The casting is good but the colour is a much darker grey than all the Forgeworld models I have. I have attached some photos in the hope that some wise souls here might either own the original models for comparison or can state categorically that the items I bought are a fake.

 

The photo with the white background has a genuine Forgeworld praetor body for colour comparison. Also the large scenic base has a glossy patch on the underside which I have not seen before on other bases.

[m_r_parker]

It's difficult to tell, for me.

Did it come in a box? If I remember correctly that diorama should have come in a blue 40k box, similar to the black 30k boxes that Primarchs and special characters come in. If it did then it's probably authentic. 

Regarding the colour of the resin - this does change over time. I've had pieces purchased from ForgeWorld direct (website, GW events, and Warhammer World) that have had different hues in resin colour. I've had both colours, and the diorama piece is in keeping with the colour of some of my pieces, and the Praetor (being an older model by some time) also matches.

 

The one part that screams recast at me, however, is the missing detail on one of the shoulder pads and down the leg. I've taken one of your pics and highlighted the areas. The tassel over the shoulder pad in particular makes me nervous. The leg, I've had it before in generic Mk III / Mk IV power armour sets, but not on character models like this before as they tend to have a higher QA. 

 

In the models you received, did they come as shown or have you started the assembly process? If you have been assembling them, did they come of larger blocks of resin? Recasts tend not to have them - it's a lot of resin / weight that gives them no value. See the pic below for an example of how they should arrive.

 

 

Edited May 5, 2023 by m_r_parker
Image change

[Etruscan]

Thank you for the in depth reply. The models came without the box and already removed from the resin blocks. I myself have sold genuine FW models already removed from the resin blocks and without original packaging so that wasn’t too much of a concern.

 

The detail on the shoulder pad tassle concerned me too though I have seen genuine FW models with similar extra fine details break before. 
 

I noticed that a different FW scenic base I own has the GW stamp on the underside so I’m hoping someone who owns the genuine Casan model can check whether the underside has the GW stamp too.

[Grotsmasha]

A very good tell for recasts are double mold lines, as it's very hard to recast along EXACTLY the same split.  

[Valkyrion]

I accidentally bought a recast Falchion on ebay. The listing never made mention of a recast, it outright stated it was Forgeworld, but it was painted nicely enough for me and it was job done for around £250 - I think FW Falchions were about £214 or some other weird number - so I bought it. I didn't have to paint it, but more importantly, I didn't have to build the bloody thing. That's worth £35 of anyone's money!

 

It looks every bit a Forgeworld model on the table and in the cabinet, but I could immediately tell it was a recast (or 3d print) as soon as I picked it up because of the weight. When I picked it up I just knew. Once I knew it was fake, I could spot the subtle differences. I don't have it immediately to hand, but I think the cupola windows were different but it was something so insignificant that you'd have to know to look for it to pass the eye test. But it failed the weight test immediately. 

 

I'm 100% sure I could game with said Falchion at Warhammer World should the opportunity arise. 

 

Point is - it doesn't matter as much as you think it does, but feeling like you've been ripped off is never nice. 

 

Not a single person is ever going to come along, pick up your Red Scorpion Standard Bearer and say 'this is fake'. 

[Etruscan]

Thanks again for the replies. On closer inspection I noticed there is indeed a double mold line. I contacted the seller and they are willing to accept a return but then sent a separate message asking why I wasted their time and didn't ask more questions about the models. I kept things polite and am awaiting the seller's acceptance of my return request.

 

The prices for a genuine Casino Sabius diorama on Ebay are anything upwards of £100-£200 boxed and I purchased the models pictured here after the seller made an offer of £70 down from £85. Personally I feel £70 is far too much for a recast.

[Beaky Brigade]

1 hour ago, Etruscan said:

Thanks again for the replies. On closer inspection I noticed there is indeed a double mold line. I contacted the seller and they are willing to accept a return but then sent a separate message asking why I wasted their time and didn't ask more questions about the models. I kept things polite and am awaiting the seller's acceptance of my return request.

 

The prices for a genuine Casino Sabius diorama on Ebay are anything upwards of £100-£200 boxed and I purchased the models pictured here after the seller made an offer of £70 down from £85. Personally I feel £70 is far too much for a recast.

 

Seller outrage is pathetic, they should be greatful not to be reported to ebay for selling fake goods, which is not OK even if labeled as such! They always seem so surprised they are fake, it seems like no one buys from a recaster direct, always a friend of a friend gave them to them! 

 

To clarify, my main issue with recast models isn't stealing from Gw or quality or ethical issues if they are produced overseas, but the fact you can't honestly sell them on, and the potential resale value is important to me. I hope you can get your money back without too much faff. 

 

Edited May 5, 2023 by Beaky Brigade

[Grotsmasha]

2 hours ago, Etruscan said:

Personally I feel £70 is far too much for a recast.

WOW, I can't believe they were charging that much for a recast....

[Bung]

9 hours ago, Grotsmasha said:

WOW, I can't believe they were charging that much for a recast....

 

A decent recaster isnt that cheap, as they do more quality control than Forgeworld.

[Lord_Ikka]

1 minute ago, Bung said:

 

A decent recaster isnt that cheap, as they do more quality control than Forgeworld.

Depends on the recaster, but this is definitely a reseller not a recaster themselves. 

[Bung]

3 hours ago, Lord_Ikka said:

Depends on the recaster, but this is definitely a reseller not a recaster themselves. 

 

Wouldnt be that sure, you can get decent recasts for 1/3 of the price of Forgeworld.

 

I would at least expect the FW quality control paper If you resell.

[Evil Eye]

On 5/6/2023 at 12:57 AM, Grotsmasha said:

WOW, I can't believe they were charging that much for a recast....

Depends on the recast, honestly. Without naming any names, I know a recaster that charges not much shy of FW prices but has impeccable quality and also mostly stocks extremely rare items (they do the Orca!). That said, it's a Russian company and they generally seem to be a lot more passionate about preserving rare miniatures, compared to a lot of the Chinese ones after a quick buck.

 

Regarding OP, sorry that happened. Scams are always a bummer, and if it was being sold as a legitimate item then that's really low. I don't buy FW from eBay for the most part for that exact reason- it's one thing if I'm after an otherwise-unobtainable model and intentionally seek out a replica service but if you pay top money for what you think is the real deal and get a recast, that sucks. Hope everything is sorted.

[Xenith]

On 5/5/2023 at 1:46 PM, Etruscan said:

 

What seems to be a double mouldline/flash on the leg there makes me think it would be a recast, along with the additional loss of detail on that pad - recasters are making moulds from other models, not the originals so loss of detail is inevitable. That said, they do look crisp in places. It could have very well been a failed cast that GW replaced with another and he's hawking the second, however outrage at your suggestion it's a recast is odd, unless they can prove it was pruchased directly from GW, they have to accept it could be a knock off. 

[MichelleC]

On 5/6/2023 at 12:35 AM, Etruscan said:

Thanks again for the replies. On closer inspection I noticed there is indeed a double mold line. I contacted the seller and they are willing to accept a return but then sent a separate message asking why I wasted their time and didn't ask more questions about the models. I kept things polite and am awaiting the seller's acceptance of my return request.

 

The prices for a genuine Casino Sabius diorama on Ebay are anything upwards of £100-£200 boxed and I purchased the models pictured here after the seller made an offer of £70 down from £85. Personally I feel £70 is far too much for a recast.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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You’re absolutely in the right to pursue a return if the item isn’t as described. The double mold line is a clear indicator of a recast, and paying £70 for something advertised as genuine is definitely not acceptable. It’s frustrating that the seller is questioning you instead of taking accountability—it’s their responsibility to ensure the accuracy of their listing.

Edited November 22 by MichelleC

[lokkorex]

On 5/5/2023 at 9:51 PM, Valkyrion said:

I accidentally bought a recast Falchion on ebay. The listing never made mention of a recast, it outright stated it was Forgeworld, but it was painted nicely enough for me and it was job done for around £250 - I think FW Falchions were about £214 or some other weird number - so I bought it. I didn't have to paint it, but more importantly, I didn't have to build the bloody thing. That's worth £35 of anyone's money!

 

It looks every bit a Forgeworld model on the table and in the cabinet, but I could immediately tell it was a recast (or 3d print) as soon as I picked it up because of the weight. When I picked it up I just knew. Once I knew it was fake, I could spot the subtle differences. I don't have it immediately to hand, but I think the cupola windows were different but it was something so insignificant that you'd have to know to look for it to pass the eye test. But it failed the weight test immediately. 

 

I'm 100% sure I could game with said Falchion at Warhammer World should the opportunity arise. 

 

Point is - it doesn't matter as much as you think it does, but feeling like you've been ripped off is never nice. 

 

Not a single person is ever going to come along, pick up your Red Scorpion Standard Bearer and say 'this is fake'. 

For future reference, are genuine fw models lighter or heavier than recasts?

 

I regularly search for fw stuff on ebay, and this would be great information to possess!

[Grotsmasha]

FW is generally heavier, as they tend to be cast solid, and is significantly more noticeable on anything above dreadnaught size, like the tanks.

Generally, recaster cut weight/resin to save the money. The same is true of 3D prints, printing hollow save a significant amount of resin.

Edited November 26 by Grotsmasha