Deredeo Splitting Fire?

[Cruor Vault]

I was at my store's HH night a couple of days ago and saw a player splitting the Aolos missile Launcher on his Deredeo off to fire at a second target.  I've scoured the rulebook, but cannot find anything that would allow this? Do Deathguard have something that would allow this?

 

Is it possibly something in the Barrage rules?  Or was he misinformed?

[Dont-Be-Haten]

33 minutes ago, Cruor Vault said:

I was at my store's HH night a couple of days ago and saw a player splitting the Aolos missile Launcher on his Deredeo off to fire at a second target.  I've scoured the rulebook, but cannot find anything that would allow this? Do Deathguard have something that would allow this?

 

Is it possibly something in the Barrage rules?  Or was he misinformed?

Probably playing 40k rules in 30k. Unless you have Split Fire or a tank/PotMS you have to fire all weapons are same target.

[Slips]

The only change that happened to the Aiolos is that it, seemingly, can no longer target another unit than the deredeos primary target which it was able to do in HH1.0 as a special set of rules the Aiolos Missile Launcher had.

 

It can still, however, target units out of LoS with Guided Fire.

Edited May 8, 2023 by Slips

[SkimaskMohawk]

Yea it's more of an over-familiarity of 1st edition than of 40k lol.

 

It sucks a lot, because the split fire was a draw of the model over any mortis pattern dreads that could take helical. Now the ailos frankly doesn't have much of a point unless you're fully hunting infantry, and that's a niche the deredeos is outstripped in. 

[MARK0SIAN]

Yeah that over-familiarity with 1st edition can really catch you out. I’ve mistakenly split-fired on my tyrant siege terminators this edition purely because I was so used to them having the rule in 1st edition (plus an early draft of 2nd still gave it to them). 
 

I think when a game like HH existed basically unchanged for so many years it’s understandable these kind of mistakes are going to creep in.

[Xenith]

Yea, in 2.0 the guided fire on the Aiolos is pointless as if you use it, then you cannot shoot the main armament. It really needs split fire again. 

[Stitch5000]

50 minutes ago, Xenith said:

Yea, in 2.0 the guided fire on the Aiolos is pointless as if you use it, then you cannot shoot the main armament. It really needs split fire again. 

The aiolos is a 5pt upgrade on the model for a 60" Heavy 3,  S6 AP3 weapon with Guided Fire and Pinning. It's quite effective in itself, since you can potentially pin a unit that would be otherwise unable to react... It;s actually a counter against the lascannon HSS meta. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

35 minutes ago, Stitch5000 said:

The aiolos is a 5pt upgrade on the model for a 60" Heavy 3,  S6 AP3 weapon with Guided Fire and Pinning. It's quite effective in itself, since you can potentially pin a unit that would be otherwise unable to react... It;s actually a counter against the lascannon HSS meta. 

 

210 points for 3 STR 6 ap3 in the heavy support slot? It averages 2 dead a turn. 

 

If people are running some critical flyers that need to be killed them ya, maybe use it as an aiolos turret while keeping in helical or something. But a lot of people don't run flyers.

 

If all you want is pinning, out of los, and cutting through marine armour then just take the Scorpius. Two of them are 225, and you get way more dead Marines; there's a reason why they're the go-to counter of the HSS.

[Xenith]

2 hours ago, Stitch5000 said:

The aiolos is a 5pt upgrade on the model for a 60" Heavy 3,  S6 AP3 weapon with Guided Fire and Pinning. It's quite effective in itself, since you can potentially pin a unit that would be otherwise unable to react... It;s actually a counter against the lascannon HSS meta. 

 

I never said it wasn't effective, just that guided fire is pointless on it - outside the niche scenario that you suggest. If all my deredeo has to shoot at are a lascannon HSS that is out of sight, I've probably already won the game! 

[Stitch5000]

21 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

 

210 points for 3 STR 6 ap3 in the heavy support slot? It averages 2 dead a turn. 

 

If people are running some critical flyers that need to be killed them ya, maybe use it as an aiolos turret while keeping in helical or something. But a lot of people don't run flyers.

 

If all you want is pinning, out of los, and cutting through marine armour then just take the Scorpius. Two of them are 225, and you get way more dead Marines; there's a reason why they're the go-to counter of the HSS.

Far be it from me to question your empirical wisdom on such matters, but it's my belief that a dreadnought is a whole different kettle of fish compared to a vehicle/tank. Let us consider that you may be backlining a Deredeo... The dreadnought has a much better chance of goalkeeping any flanking attacks with its ability to return fire...

 

19 hours ago, Xenith said:

 

I never said it wasn't effective, just that guided fire is pointless on it - outside the niche scenario that you suggest. If all my deredeo has to shoot at are a lascannon HSS that is out of sight, I've probably already won the game! 

I mean it really isn't pointless at all. It allows you to shoot without line of sight. Of course people are going to be getting out of teh way of the main armament and this is an additional thing that you just cannot hide from... It happens to be quite tasty too. 

My suggestion isn't based on absolutes of course, although many people seem to seek an absolute answer to any question. I am merely suggesting that the Deredeo doesn't NEED Split Fire or a similar rule to allow it to have a use. It siomply can't do everything all of the time now. 
 

[SkimaskMohawk]

2 hours ago, Stitch5000 said:

Far be it from me to question your empirical wisdom on such matters, but it's my belief that a dreadnought is a whole different kettle of fish compared to a vehicle/tank. Let us consider that you may be backlining a Deredeo... The dreadnought has a much better chance of goalkeeping any flanking attacks with its ability to return fire...

 

Yea, they are different because of reactions and general durability. But let's not pretend that being able to react to outflankers or deepstrike with the aiolos makes it a 'counter against the lascannon HSS meta". It makes it good at reacting against movement phase stuff.

[Stitch5000]

2 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

 

Yea, they are different because of reactions and general durability. But let's not pretend that being able to react to outflankers or deepstrike with the aiolos makes it a 'counter against the lascannon HSS meta". It makes it good at reacting against movement phase stuff.

In any situation where you can shoot at something from a position that it cannot possibly return fire, I would generally say something is pretty good.  Of course we will be forced to keep discussing things on an increasing tangent until you can exit the conversation assured that you are "right". 

[SkimaskMohawk]

3 hours ago, Stitch5000 said:

Of course we will be forced to keep discussing things on an increasing tangent until you can exit the conversation assured that you are "right". 

 

Don't worry, I already knew I was right when I first quoted you about the matchup into las HSS. Because that's what I'm actually talking about, not Xeniths point about the aiolos being useless. It has a use, as you've pointed out, with being able to pin on the reaction. But that has nothing to do with the first thing.

 

3 hours ago, Stitch5000 said:

In any situation where you can shoot at something from a position that it cannot possibly return fire, I would generally say something is pretty good.

Yea...that's unfortunately not the case. Weapon stats and point ratios matters more than getting to ignore los. There's a reason why people have shelved their morbuses, Medusas and basilisks. But this is definitely more suited to a tactica thread instead of a rules one.

[Xenith]

17 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Xeniths point about the aiolos being useless

 

Not the Aiolos itself, that's a decent weapon - guided fire on it seems mostly useless to me, as I can't envisage many situations where I wish to forego the shooting of the main armaments to maybe kill 1-2 MEQ in cover after hit, wound, invun and shrouded. 

Edited May 11, 2023 by Xenith

[Cleon]

2 hours ago, Xenith said:

 

Not the Aiolos itself, that's a decent weapon - guided fire on it seems mostly useless to me, as I can't envisage many situations where I wish to forego the shooting of the main armaments to maybe kill 1-2 MEQ in cover after hit, wound, invun and shrouded. 

Yes, I mean it's better to have that ability than not, just in case it's first turn and a mostly reserved force has managed to hide everything, or you are repositioning and have no shots, but I wouldn't want to pay for it.