10e and Primaris Wolves.

[Prot]

So one of the things that I wanted to do as I took on my Wolves project was make the force mostly Primaris which I am struggling to do. 
 

My reasoning for this is in part I have painted dozens of large armies …first born. And I just feel a little more motivated to paint the Primaris line. 
 

The problem with this is three fold. Firstly almost everything that works “well” for Wolves is firstborn. I accepted this as I do play in a fairly competitive environment.  
 

Secondly, perhaps aside from Assault Intercessors and Bladeguard, the army appears to function far better with a string lean into assault which Primaris doesn’t do well. Yet I have built and painted Wulfen, and Murderfang, and TWC. But I really don’t want to do Grey Hunters/skyclaws/ etc. (I am currently working on Hounds of Morkai which aren’t terrible). 
 

thirdly is the fluff, or background.  
Spoilers ahead…..

 

I am almost finished Ashes of Prospero. I wanted to read this because it’s largely focused on what I think one of the best HH mini series focused on…the cleansing  of Prospero. It is revisited by Njal and some of the mainstream SW characters. But Njal has to take a ragtag band of marines that can go on such an excursion and that means it’s a lot of a Primaris, Doofus the Trickster and Arjack to keep the whole going show in check. The good thing is the Primaris get instant historical reference while on Prospero. The bad thing is the Primaris are largely “red shirts “ in the plot. 
 

 

Previously I had read the Wolftime. I heard a lot of mixed things about this book but since it focused on the Wolves getting a meet and greet with Guilliman, the Indomitus Crusade and a giant pile of Primaris resources, I thought this would be interesting. 
 

it turns out even with the Wolf Kings gene seed the Primaris are 

argent ostracized and flat out disdained by many. It got so ridiculous to me to listen to Logan’s reasoning and rejection of Guillimans offers at the risk of extinction, I almost  stopped reading it. 
 

So is there a Primaris wolf book I have missed?

 

As far as Primaris units go,  I am trying to make it work with Assault Intercessors, Ragnar, Brutalis, Hounds of Morkai, Libby in Phobos, Warsuit, and a Desolation squad which has been suspect. Aggressors didn’t really fit. 
 

Any suggestions?

 

 

 

[Gamiel]

3 hours ago, Prot said:

So is there a Primaris wolf book I have missed?

Don't know if it counts since its about the Wolfspear but The Wolves of Raukos by Guy Haley that you find in the Successors anthology 

[Karhedron]

Space Wolves respect skill and ferocity in combat which Primaris certainly are not lacking. Plus Ragnar has now crossed the Rubicon. My headcannon is that Wolftime and Ashes are both early in the Indomitus Crusade. By the time of Dark Imperium, I suspect Primaris Wolves will be well on the way to earning the respect of their older brothers.

 

I have been running a mainly Primaris Wolves army for most of 9th and it works pretty well. Bladeguard, Redemptors and Wulfen do a lot of heavy lifting in melee. Phobos do well as basic Troops and I have a smattering of Intercessors. I allow in Long Fangs for heavy weapon support (although Desolators are now an option) and Wulfen (because who doesn;t love massed S10 Thunder Hammers?).

[Valerian]

8 hours ago, Prot said:

Firstly almost everything that works “well” for Wolves is firstborn. I accepted this as I do play in a fairly competitive environment.  

 

For now, my input to your query is simply that those Firstborn units are what have worked well in the past.  We do not yet know what is going to work well in 10e. 

 

And the Primaris line is only going to continue to grow.  We all know that from here on out there won't be new Firstborn units added to the game, but there will always be a trickle of new Space Marines.  Once a Jump Pack equipped assault marine style squad becomes available (and we know it will, because, Dante), then there won't be much left of the old units that won't have been covered by some sort of Primaris "replacement."

 

Especially now that Vehicles and Transports appear to be back on the table, some of the Primaris shortcomings (like Mobility and Protection) shouldn't be as much of an issue.  Not a huge deal to leave out those Jump Pack Wolf Guard, when Bladeguard in an Impulsor work as well, or perhaps better.

 

[Prot]

Do you all find that Bladeguard are an optimal fit? Or are the better choices still in the first born range?

 

I agree jump pack Primaris of any type would be great, but they do seem to keep concentrating on very focused ranged roles for some reason.... Desolators, Incinerators,etc.

 

I actually don't use any Phobos troops in my Wolves. I use them in other armies with a more.. delicate back line.

6 hours ago, Gamiel said:

Don't know if it counts since its about the Wolfspear but The Wolves of Raukos by Guy Haley that you find in the Successors anthology 

 

Thanks for this. I do like Guy Haley, I'll try and find it.

[Wolf Guard Dan]

I share some of your feelings about some of our recent novels. There’s some inconsistency in how SW are written at the moment. They had to address primaris integration into the space wolves and I think they did an okay job in Wolftime. They did capture some of the angst that many in this SW community had when primaris were first released. Grimnar had me groaning at some points but that might be just because my thoughts of how he would act didn’t align with what was written. At the end of the day the IP is always correct :p I would have loved more consistency from Njal across Wolftime and Ashes of Prospero. They felt like different characters even though it was the same author.
 

To Valerians point, we don’t know how 10th edition will effect us. Space Wolves have always felt Jack of All Trades, Master of None to me until the large Wulfen were released. I’ve always played my wolves cagier. I do think the primaris range allows for that. Phobos are something I’ve viewed as wolfy. Go grab some objectives early with your Phobos wolf scouts then scoot back to the main line as needed.

 

I’ve always been told Codex Space Marines are a shooty army and that’s probably why the newer generic kits are ranged. Hopefully tenth has some bespoke kits for us. Hope we don’t wait too long but I’ve got a backlog of other things to paint.

[Rasclomalum]

Well, since 10th comes with the release of shiny new Primaris (or potentially Primaris) Terminators, it's a safe bet to assume that Arjac and Njal (and possibly Grimnar, though they'll probably kill him off) will cross the Rubicon at some point. It would seem logical to release them together with a Space Wolves upgrade sprue with the Terminators. I'll award bonus points if, at that point, there is a new Terminator Chaplain and the sprue contains a wolfy skull helmet. 

 

Phobos Lukas, maybe? And plastic Primaris Canis with Primaris Thunderwolf cavalry.

[Prot]

Phobos Lucas would be a very cool touch.... I'd like to see him take on a new role with an adapted version of first born blood claws. 

 

I really don't know about the characters getting new models beyond 1 or 2. Most people appear to be thinking it's only going to be one, so they are picking 'the one' for their army. So I'm just collecting Wolves bits and I'm going to adapt the new Termie kit for the characters. (IE Arjack's hammer / bling on a new Termie model.)

 

Again I struggled painting my TWC in this era. I'd LOVE to see a new version of those.

 

BTW: Almost finished Ashes of Prospero 

 

I really saw no reason to include Primaris in it other than exposing the new guys to the old guard. And that theme is deeper in the novel...

Spoiler

We see Arjack meet his equivalent in the Tizcan maze thing, as well as Bjorn reconnect with his old Wolf lord (of course thousands of years have passed so it's a bit of a shocker. 

 

This was my favorite part of the novel by far. The 'new' Wolves meeting the 'old' Wolves. I thought the difference/similarities were well done.

 

As far as Wolftime I may have to give it another go. I really found Logan frustrating, but the trials and tribulations of the Primaris (I found) to be the most interesting characters. 

Edited May 11, 2023 by Prot

[Karhedron]

23 hours ago, Prot said:

Do you all find that Bladeguard are an optimal fit? Or are the better choices still in the first born range?

 

I found BGVs were a great choice for Wolves and they have done a lot of heavy lifting for me throughout 9th edition. They get lots of high quality attacks, an Invulnerable save and only take up 1 slot in a Transport. 5 in an Impulsor with a Character to provide rerolls get a lot of work done. They only weakness is against high toughness targets but the MCPS wound everything in the game on at least a 5+. Given their volume of attacks, they are a great target for Savage Strike when they want to pretend to be Blood Angels.

 

For anything really tough, Wulfen with Hammers are hard to beat and the two units together can deal with almost any targets. Firstborn do have options like TH/SS Wolf Guard with Jump Packs which are decent but they trade volume of attacks for mobility. In short, Wulfen + Primaris really do seem to cover most bases.

 

Of course all this could change going into 10th. We don't know what units will look like in the new edition. BGVs are going to suffer in probably remaining S5 meaning that they will need 6s to Wound anything from Dreadnoughts upwards. They will go from being anti-everything to anti-elite infantry. It may be that Terminators are a better choice in 10th edition as S8 still gives them a chance against vehicles and you can add in a sprinkling of Chainfists.

 

However it looks like one of the big changes in 10th is that infantry are going to struggle to deal with Vehicles on their own. Oath of Moment will help but I think the standard response to tanks will be to bring tanks of your own to deal with them. So in that case, BGVs might remain a good choice for dealing with enemy elites. May have to wait and see a bit on this. But unless they change radically, I think BGVs will still be good in 10th. The only question is whether they remain great or get outshone by the new Terminators.

[Valerian]

11 hours ago, Rasclomalum said:

possibly Grimnar, though they'll probably kill him off

 

I seriously doubt they're killing off Logan Grimnar.  They've kept the other major Chapter Masters in play: Supreme Grand Master Azrael and Commander Dante (and there's no indication of anything happening to Marneus Calgar).  They're not going to bring those other guys back post-Rubicon without doing the same for The Great Wolf.  He's been in the setting for over 30 years; they're not going to remove him at this point and piss off generations of Space Wolves fans.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Plus his sleigh is only 6-7 years old