#Scalperboykott

[Xenith]

On 5/10/2023 at 10:52 PM, Waaagh? said:

Boycott.......It's spelled Boycott.

 

=][= This is an international site with many Frater whose first language is not English: Please be kind - There are better ways to let people know they've made an error =][=

[Jalleo]

On 5/11/2023 at 12:22 AM, ZeroWolf said:

I've heard people saying that its been confirmed that Leviathan won't be going to Made to Order but can't seem to remember where this was said. If true, it could be why they've been reportedly making boxes since last year non-stop, hence why we've been getting smaller producr runs of other products lately.

It was in the Q&A sessions at warhammerfest.

It was specifically asked as one of the first quetions after the reveal

[ZeroWolf]

35 minutes ago, Jalleo said:

It was in the Q&A sessions at warhammerfest.

It was specifically asked as one of the first quetions after the reveal

That was it! Thanks for the help!

[StraightSilver]

I was also in the Q&A.

 

Leviathan won't be made to order but apparently they have made more copies of the box than any other previous product and the queue system will be in place with copies limited to 1 per customer. Otherwise though, when it's gone, it's gone but all components will be available separately after.

I still don't hold out much hope for everyone though, as the queue system is very easy to get around.... as is the 1 per customer....

[Silas7]

On 5/10/2023 at 10:57 AM, Naysmith said:

Hi all,

 

in my main forum we are dicussing the scalper topic at the moment. Fear of missing out on the Leviathan Boxed Set brought the topic up again. So i thought why not try to generate a trending # with #Scalperboykott.

The idea is to boykott this "business model" by not buying any goods that are offered above the retail price. I would be happy if some of you help to spread the word via your various social media presences.

 

 

cya

 

But what if I'm buying a split box? And has GW listed MSRP for those? Is the only way to tell a scalper by inflated listing prices? As far as I know scalpers will price-fix and carefully control supply; When everything is over-priced nothing is (of course we can cross-check GW direct but still)

[Brother Captain Alberic]

On 5/16/2023 at 3:41 PM, StraightSilver said:

I was also in the Q&A.

 

Leviathan won't be made to order but apparently they have made more copies of the box than any other previous product and the queue system will be in place with copies limited to 1 per customer. Otherwise though, when it's gone, it's gone but all components will be available separately after.

I still don't hold out much hope for everyone though, as the queue system is very easy to get around.... as is the 1 per customer....

How are people getting around it out of curiosity.  Judging by how ashes of faith seems to have gone with 3rd parties I’m wondering if I’m going to need to ‘try’ GW direct after all.

[Firedrake Cordova]

1 hour ago, Brother Captain Alberic said:

How are people getting around it out of curiosity.

It's probably a variation on ticket bots. 

[Brother Captain Alberic]

Reading that article I think I see why the queue is random then. It’s designed to deal with the bots as they can also get round IP address checks by using multiple ip addresses. 

[Warden-Paints]

Have they just stopped using the queueing system completely? 

[Brother Captain Alberic]

Supposedly it’s coming back for Leviathan but dunno if it will be the same system as before.

[firestorm40k]

So I've been mulling this over, and I actually think it'll take more than action by GW to resolve this. 

 

I don't think this is just a GW issue, as in it's entirely their responsibility to fix it. Yes, they can take measures by actually manufacturing more products, tightening anti bot/scalper measures on their webstore, or even making box set releases available through made-to-order.

 

But I do think the platforms where scalpers 'flip' these items could do more to prevent it - just look at how many of the Ashes of Faith set went straight in ebay for a 100-200% mark up. Sites like ebay are also benefitting from scalpers - I actually think pressure should be put on them to take action to prevent it. I'm considering boycotting ebay because of this - I've been a buyer/seller on there for almost 20 years, I think if there's a significant number of people that actively boycott their platform until they take action, then they'd have to take notice.

 

So, anyone want to join me in a boycott of ebay for starters?  At least until they bring in an anti-scalper policy. It could be something simple such as making an agreement with GW that listing's of pre-order items are not allowed until the official release date. 

 

As I said, I had been thinking of this over the last few days (especially after the Ashes of Faith debacle), but the latest video from Valrak - highlighting that this scalping is a serious, organised and deliberate targetting of GW products - has actually given me the motivation to contact ebay directly. If you've not seen it, it's here: https://youtu.be/BERrK5_oOsc

 

[Arkhanist]

Useful reddit thread with aggressive ebay messages from a high-price GW scalper (goldfishblue) when challenged on price.

 

ebay don't care because they see a seller with a high reputation, because they do actually have and ship the goods, even at an eyewatering price. That they've got literally 0 negative feedback is suspicious and makes me suspect they know a way to purge negative reviews, perhaps by contesting the review or banning the customer.

 

By the looks of it they don't care that say, 99% of people are put off by their prices (or boycotting them because they're scum); the point is to land the whales for whom price is little object and MUST HAVE the new shiny, and the scalpers do very nicely from it. And they will go out of their way to buy up rare items sold at more reasonable prices in order to drive up scarcity. 

 

Ebay do have a price gouging policy for emergency items, but for consumer goods, they don't care.

 

Boycotting ebay is fine in principle, and I'm certainly not going to dissuade anyone from it; but I do doubt it's going to have any wider effect. If the general public aren't already put off by the rate of scammy and fraudulent operators there, then adding a few more gamers pissed off at scalping isn't going to move the needle significantly.

Edited May 24, 2023 by Arkhanist

[firestorm40k]

I can see where you're coming from - I think it would take a sizable number of users to boycott ebay, hitting them financially, for them to seriously address the issue through new policies. 

 

I did report some listings for violating selling policies when I first spotted them, and I sent another email today outlining that they should put an anti-scalper policy in place, because without it I am considering leaving their platform. I got a very, very quick response to this email - they seem keen to dissuade people from leaving them:

 

Quote

Thank you for writing to eBay to report sellers who violates our policy.

 

We appreciate your time and effort for taking the time to bring this to our attention. Such reports helps us keep eBay a safe marketplace for our buyers and sellers. I can understand this is frustrating but you do not have to resort to account cancellation as we would like to keep you as one of our valued seller.

 

I am here to help you file a report against the sellers and for me to do that, kindly revert back to this email with the concerned item number and username of the sellers so we can investigate the account and take immediate action.

So I replied almost straight away, and provided several examples of price-gouged scalped Ashes of Faith sets, pointing out that at the time I checked for them, there were almost 180 similar listings for the same set. 

 

Again, I got another rapid response:

 

Quote

Thank you for taking your time out to report the listings and sharing the details, you did the right thing reaching us, we will ensure that strict action is taken against the listing and the sellers account too.

 

We do have a dedicated team working round the clock to take action on listings that are in breach of the policy; however, due to sheer volume of items listed on the site it is not possible to take action on all the items as soon as they get listed. Also, by the time we remove a listing, similar items gets listed on the site, so sellers think that we are not taking action on other similar items. But, let me assure you that is not the case. Sooner or later our team will take action on all such items that are in breach of the policy.

 

We’re glad that you brought this instance to our attention and this will certainly help the entire eBay community. We appreciate your efforts to help us keep eBay a safe place to trade. We appreciate your co-operation and understanding in this matter.

 

...I see that you have been associated with us since 2004. I'd like to take this opportunity to thank and appreciate you for placing your trust on us since such a long period. We are blessed to have a member like you. We assure you to stand by you and support you in every possible manner.

So there's a bit of lip service to my statements about leaving ebay and boycotting it, but I hope the part where they are taking action against the scalper accounts (at least to remove listings) is true. 

 

There's only so much that one person reporting listings and complaining about scalpers to ebay can achieve, but I think the response indicates the company wants to keep people using their service - so, again, if substantial numbers of people declared a boycott, I think they'd actually respond to it. 

 

But as I said above, it's only one part of a wider problem. Scalping only exists when manufacturing of a product doesn't meet demand, as demonstrated not just by GW products, but various other companies (my son collects Transformers Studio Series figures, and Hasbro are almost worse than GW for their laxity on this issue). 

 

GW can do things their end, but ultimately it'll need Actions and policies from them and other companies to finally stop scalping. 

 

My emails to ebay won't have much impact in the scheme of things, but if I've disrupted a few scalpers by getting their listings removed from ebay - then I'm happy with that 

[GreenScorpion]

GW could deal with most of the scalpers through making sure people get their own copies with Made to Order or by no longer making some of their regular boxes seem like rare collector's editions, but they don't really want to because the limited edition factor makes sure that they sell most of their production rather quickly, even when they raised the prices.

 

Ultimately, however, the issue with scalpers comes mostly from the buyers, because if there was no market to sell GW stuff at a significant markup then the scalpers would move on to other types of products.

The same happens with other limited edition stuff, like miniatures from crowdfunding campaigns that are exclusive, but the prices are typically much higher with GW stuff because that is what the market is able to sell.

If the fake scarcity of GW stuff disappears then scalpers will eventually disappear as a consequence.

[Halandaar]

Respectfully, eBay does not give one single hoot. The entire right-minded Warhammer buying community could boycott ebay and they would barely notice, not least because the people who are prepared to pay scalper rates will continue to do so. We are talking about a platform with hundreds of millions of customers worldwide Vs a relative handful of toy soldier fans. Losing the ones who don't pay the big bucks for scalped items anyway isn't going to bother them, so I doubt their replies are anything but template-based empty appeasement.

[Gnasher]

That looks very much like a Chat GPT type AI based response to me

[firestorm40k]

1 hour ago, Halandaar said:

Respectfully, eBay does not give one single hoot. The entire right-minded Warhammer buying community could boycott ebay and they would barely notice

And, respectfully, I did point out that it's an issue not limited to GW products, so would require a level of cross-interest cooperation that I acknowledge just wouldn't happen; and that it would take significant (e.g. double-figures percentage) customers boycotting them - as you correctly point out, larger than the Warhammer community - to begin to have an impact. 

 

I raised the 'idea' to illustrate this problem will take more than Actions by GW to resolve. Like all ideas, there's an element of spitting in the wind. But it's worth putting out alternative ideas, or at times this place can become a 'GW are evil and cause all the problems!' type echo chamber*. Especially when scalping is bigger than affecting GW products. 

 

*and before I get shouted down for that, it goes without saying that there are a number of GW's business practices can rightly be criticised. 

[Grotsmasha]

5 hours ago, firestorm40k said:

I did report some listings for violating selling policies

 

Wait, is Scalping against their selling policies?

 

If that's the case, a boycott is the wrong idea I think. What about an organised effort to REPORT every listing we all see? Actually create WORK for eBay? Like, it they have to investigate/action this stuff, what would the labour cost to them be? Would it be enough?

 

How many reports a day could we produce if we all spent 5mins a day reporting anything over, double RRP?

[crimsondave]

1 hour ago, Grotsmasha said:

 

Wait, is Scalping against their selling policies?

 

If that's the case, a boycott is the wrong idea I think. What about an organised effort to REPORT every listing we all see? Actually create WORK for eBay? Like, it they have to investigate/action this stuff, what would the labour cost to them be? Would it be enough?

 

How many reports a day could we produce if we all spent 5mins a day reporting anything over, double RRP?

Scalping is not against the rules.  Listing an item you are not in possession of is.  Or it used to be anyway.

[Arkhanist]

2 hours ago, Grotsmasha said:

 

Wait, is Scalping against their selling policies?

 

 

Price gouging is against policy for 'essential' goods during emergencies or disasters - they implemented this to try and tackle the criticism over widespread gouging on hand sanitiser and masks in 2020 IIRC. @firestorm40k did you report them for violating price gouging policy or something else?

 

1 hour ago, crimsondave said:

Scalping is not against the rules.  Listing an item you are not in possession of is.  Or it used to be anyway.

 

Pre-sales are allowed (i.e. stuff you don't have but will do), as long as you specify "presale" in the title and the description, and when it will be available to dispatch. The item must be dispatched within 30 days of purchase.

 

Given GW's pre-order window is pretty short, the listings I've seen tend to meet the criteria, except for having 'presale' in the title. If we all started mass-reporting them we could get those particular auctions delisted for that; but of course, they can then relist later once they do have it in hand (or indeed, just relist it anyway and ignore the takedown)

[2PlusEasy]

I suspect GW don't care about scalping either: at the end of the day they're still selling their product in line with their release and burn strategy, and often at full retail price, to these scalpers. They've achieved what they intended to achieve and they've groomed their consumer base to panic-buy direct out of fear of missing out in the process.

 

The lack of availability and search for alternate means on the other hand is a different story. But once again, GW don't care: they're still getting their due from the release and burn strategy and will likely continue to under-supply.

 

[Edit] Atleast in the Australian market, the issue for cause is the lack of supply to Independent retailers in comparison to the supply from their own online store. This starts to impede on denying retailers fair trade and opportunities, but that's a separate topic in itself.

Edited May 25, 2023 by 2PlusEasy

[spessmarine]

On 5/10/2023 at 3:52 PM, Waaagh? said:

Boycott.......It's spelled Boycott.

 

no it zoggin iznt, ya grot hugga

[Arkhanist]

3 hours ago, spessmarine said:

 

no it zoggin iznt, ya grot hugga

 

It is spelled boycott as it's named after Captain Boycott, an agent of an absentee landlord who attempted to evict Irish tenants after a poor harvest. The local response was to refuse to work for or trade with him, so he found he could no longer hire workers to harvest his crops or do business, and even his postie cut him off. The success of the action and press coverage quickly lead to 'boycott' becoming the name for mass refusal to do business with someone due to an unpopular action, though the act of boycotting itself predates this.

 

That said, English is notorious for making up spelling as it goes along, along with many regional variations, so it's not something I'd normally mention!

Edited May 25, 2023 by Arkhanist

[Warden-Paints]

4 hours ago, Arkhanist said:

 

It is spelled boycott as it's named after Captain Boycott, an agent of an absentee landlord who attempted to evict Irish tenants after a poor harvest. The local response was to refuse to work for or trade with him, so he found he could no longer hire workers to harvest his crops or do business, and even his postie cut him off. The success of the action and press coverage quickly lead to 'boycott' becoming the name for mass refusal to do business with someone due to an unpopular action, though the act of boycotting itself predates this.

 

That said, English is notorious for making up spelling as it goes along, along with many regional variations, so it's not something I'd normally mention!

 

I think you missed the joke there bud, and quite a good one it was. 

[Warhead01]

I don't understand how GW would have any responsibility at all in regards to scalpers.  They sold a product and someone else decided to resell it, even if that was their plan from the start.  Honestly though if GW cared they'd do something constructive about it like limit the number sold per purchase or or set a limit they themselves would sell on any given day. Maybe they issue a ticket you might use for the intended purchase, with some kind of product code. some means of controlling their sales. 
That said why would anyone ever pay full price let alone an inflated price unless they really wanted to. I will admit to having spend near 70 dollars on a single captain one time but I know there was no other way I would find that out outside of searching for a recast.  And this point if I had it to do again I would look for that recast rather than spend that much money on a single model I would hardly ever use. 
Boycott away, if the sellers end up holding their boxes for 6 months to a year it could make the endeavor cost way more than it was ever worth to them.