Plague marine unit organization (fluff question)

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Is there a definitive answer on how PMs are organized into units and squads? I was under the impression that since the DG still functions as a legion that, back when we had the option of up to 20 PM, that was an accurate portrayal of how they would conduct their operations in 40k. I've also seen that there are some who subscribe to the whole "PM are organized in units of 7 to honor nurgle," but is that really accurate? I'd get that the stinky bois love their grand-pappy, but I have a hard time imagining they would ignore some tactical strength (favored by their primarch) in order to try to show papa nurgle how special they think he is in repping his number.  I know diving into this part of the fluff is fairly moot because (as far as 9th is concerned) we can't have larger than 10 man squads of PMs. Considering Mortation's battle order during the HH I would be surprised to see the Death Guard not continuing to function as they did as a legion. 

[Urauloth]

It varies by vectorium, as per the 8th edition codex (and I'm pretty sure the organization info was reprinted in the 9E book too, but I'd have to check - a lot of lore got left out)

So, nothing definitive that would apply to the whole legion. Squads of 7 are certainly a thing, lore-wise, but they're not universal. There are probably warbands that still operate in 20s like they used to, and some where there are squads of varying sizes. Given how obsessed with numerology the modern Death Guard are, though, I'd expect 7-strong units to be relatively common.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

12 hours ago, Urauloth said:

It varies by vectorium, as per the 8th edition codex (and I'm pretty sure the organization info was reprinted in the 9E book too, but I'd have to check - a lot of lore got left out)

So, nothing definitive that would apply to the whole legion. Squads of 7 are certainly a thing, lore-wise, but they're not universal. There are probably warbands that still operate in 20s like they used to, and some where there are squads of varying sizes. Given how obsessed with numerology the modern Death Guard are, though, I'd expect 7-strong units to be relatively common.

 

Thanks for the feedback. Even with how obsessed modern Death Guard are, you'd figure there would be more emphasis on the number 14 considering it was/is their legion number and still a multiple of 7. 

[sitnam]

I know Astartes aren’t humans, but bigger squads isn’t necessarily better. The bigger the squad, the more section leaders required to direct a squad.  Given the individual combat power of marines, smaller squads could allow them to better spread their forces.

 

Also, I don’t think even the more unified Legions are as cohesive as the Heresy counterparts. Even the Death Guard and Iron Warriors likely still have a degree of factionalism and warlordism.

[Special Officer Doofy]

14 minutes ago, sitnam said:

Even the Death Guard and Iron Warriors likely still have a degree of factionalism and warlordism.

 

I think this is true. I think they get their act together for a big campaign like the plague wars but I think alot of the past 10k years has been your term "warlordism".

 

As a death guard only player I don't think lore has to translate into the game on every front. I'm fine with the obsession with numbers in the lore but I never cared that the plague marine box came with 7 marines when they should be taken in either 5 (min) or 10 (max). They didn't do this with rubric marines and they didn't do it to the new Berzerkers.

[sitnam]

1 hour ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

 

I think this is true. I think they get their act together for a big campaign like the plague wars but I think alot of the past 10k years has been your term "warlordism".

 

As a death guard only player I don't think lore has to translate into the game on every front. I'm fine with the obsession with numbers in the lore but I never cared that the plague marine box came with 7 marines when they should be taken in either 5 (min) or 10 (max). They didn't do this with rubric marines and they didn't do it to the new Berzerkers.

Was numerology always a Nurgle thing or did it come about when they got their own codex? I honestly don't remember it being that big of a deal (compared to the other legions) before 8th

[Brother Tyler]

Nurgle's number has been 7 since the 1st edition in Realm of Chaos: Lost and the Damned. The emphasis on the sacred number of each of the Chaos Powers has usually been placed on their daemons rather than with their Heretic Astartes cultists, though the sacred numbers have definitely had a presence among the cult Legions (and other cultists). The 1st edition rules (Realm of Chaos: Lost and the Damned) limited Plague Marines squads to 5 models. The 3.5 codex allowed Plague Marine squads to consist of up to 20 models. Later editions have generally allowed either 10 or 20 Plague Marines, usually in common with standard Chaos Space Marine squads. The shift to a more rigid 7 models per Plague Marines squad is an 8th edition retcon/development. With the World Eaters allowing Khorne Berzerkers to be 5-10 models in size (rather than subscribing to Khorne's sacred number of 8), I imagine that we'll see the Death Guard adjusted in the 10th edition of the game, not shoehorning them into 7-man squads.

[WrathOfTheLion]

17 minutes ago, Brother Tyler said:

Nurgle's number has been 7 since the 1st edition in Realm of Chaos: Lost and the Damned. The emphasis on the sacred number of each of the Chaos Powers has usually been placed on their daemons rather than with their Heretic Astartes cultists, though the sacred numbers have definitely had a presence among the cult Legions (and other cultists). The 1st edition rules (Realm of Chaos: Lost and the Damned) limited Plague Marines squads to 5 models. The 3.5 codex allowed Plague Marine squads to consist of up to 20 models. Later editions have generally allowed either 10 or 20 Plague Marines, usually in common with standard Chaos Space Marine squads. The shift to a more rigid 7 models per Plague Marines squad is an 8th edition retcon/development. With the World Eaters allowing Khorne Berzerkers to be 5-10 models in size (rather than subscribing to Khorne's sacred number of 8), I imagine that we'll see the Death Guard adjusted in the 10th edition of the game, not shoehorning them into 7-man squads.

Death Guard in 9E allows the squad to be 5-10, it's just the kit only comes with 7. To beef it back up to 10 is why there's the separate 3-man plague marine reinforcements kit. It was a strange design decision for the kit that although 'cool' with numerology, isn't the best when it comes to actually fielding the faction. Unfortunately, I doubt they'll fix the kit and add add an extra sprue to make it 10.

Edited May 17, 2023 by WrathOfTheLion