Ultramarines unique units possibly going?

[Captain Idaho]

Been thinking on this... Guilliman is definitely in the Space Marines section and that implies there won't be a Codex for Ultramarines. 

 

So where does the likes of Victrix Guard go? We have 2 Ultramarines specific characters (not special characters) and 3 Ultramarines specific units, which is actually more than Black Templars I believe. Yet we won't get a unique Codex most probably. 

 

So what happens to these guys? I'm thinking Legends for Honour Guard, the Chapter Champion and Ancient. They're done I reckon, which is a shame as they're iconic models.

 

The Victrix Guard I can't place... I suspect they'll be rolled into Calgar's datasheet if I'm honest. I think people will be unhappy about this one.

 

Lastly, Tyrannic War Veterans I think will just be Sternguard. Not terrible really as that's all they really are. I do miss their old Krak grenades in melee thing, plus with a focus on Tyranids it would have been cool to see them, but I can live with this change to be fair.

 

What does everyone else think on this subject?

[apologist]

Interesting question, and I don't think there's an obvious answer. My gut feeling is that GW want 40k rules to retain a physical presence, rather than going all-in on an app. Their stated aim with this edition is to simplify things and have as few points of reference as possible – which is where the unit cards and Detachments come in. 

 

The old model of having a Codex or Codex supplement seems to work slightly against that, but I wouldn't count it out.

 

It's possible that special characters or unique units might appear as part of (or supplements to) the card packs – perhaps with one card with the rules and a second with art/lore.

 

Alternatively, we might see certain special characters appearing as an integrated part of a particular Detachment; though I think this unlikely.

 

As a pure guess, I'd suggest that Ultramarines might simply remain as a part of a future Codex Space Marines, and their special characters included there, as well as in the general 'Space Marine' unit card deck.

[Snakes of Ithaka]

I can see the honour guard going to legends purely based on the fact that they used the image of them on the section about Legends in 10th Edition on the warcom arcticle.

 

I could also see Tyrannic War Veterans having models introduced via Kill Team somewhere down the line.

 

As for the rest of the characters I guess it will go back to the way it was with all the characters in the main codex.

[lansalt]

Just because there isn't an Ultramarines codex in 10th doesn't mean that unique SM units are going to be avaliable to all chapters. Guilliman is a special case as the overall leader of the faction, but characters like Calgar and the Victrix Guard should be still UM and not being able to be used by Salamanders or something.

 

That said, all the old characters/units in finecast are clearly going OOP and Legends unless they get a new primaris-era model, that's for sure. Specially when Tellion or Cassius already have close plastic look-alikes in the primaris range.

[Tacitus]

The original Honor Guard is already going Legends from what I've seen.  The Victrix are likely to stick around as they're part of the current Calgar box.  Most/All of the characters and the Tyrranic War Vets are getting an On Demand turn in the orders right very now.  But my question is - what makes you think we won't get a supplement - going back to 8th Edition where the allegedly Codex Compliant Chapters (even if they aren't compliant) go from the main book and get some specials (characters/Strats/etc) from the supplement that gives them a little of what the BA/DA/SW get.  They do it pretty much every edition: Angels of Death codex supplement, the assorted Chapter Supplements, and so on. 

[Captain Idaho]

They've only ever done it once - there's never been unique supplements for the Ultramarines bar 8th. 

 

I hope we do get a supplement. There's always room for unique things to be added to the Ultramarines. 

 

I doubt it though. The noises GW have made promoting the death of subfactions is quite telling. 

 

There might be a unique data card set for Chapters but really only Ultramarines need them. Little point selling a set just for the likes of Iron Hands who only have 1 character. 

 

Be strange how they're gonna approach it. Buying data cards for a faction and having all the Ultramarines, White Scars etc characters when you collect Raven Guard seems wasteful and likely more expensive than other factions for little benefit. 

 

It's a real conundrum. 

[lansalt]

Ultras had also their own codex in 2nd edition, IIRC.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, lansalt said:

Ultras had also their own codex in 2nd edition, IIRC.

Captain Invictus will never die :D..

 

And fun fact our Chapter Banner depicted Invictus.

[Captain Idaho]

19 minutes ago, lansalt said:

Ultras had also their own codex in 2nd edition, IIRC.

 

The Codex was called Codex Ultramarines but it was actually an army list for generic Space Marines. 

[apologist]

For better or worse, Ultramarines are the face of Warhammer 40,000 – and of the Space Marines as a faction.

 

In essence, whether you call it ‘Codex Space Marines’ or ‘Codex Ultramarines’, it largely amounts to the same thing at root; we’ve just seen either more or less emphasis on the Ultramarines/other Codex chapter balance over the years.
 

The Codex Supplement approach was an interesting one, but had the problem that not all First Founding Chapters warrant the approach beyond it being nice for lore. Space Wolves, for example, are so rules-divergent that they struggled to fit, while not enough new material was introduced for (say) Iron Hands and White Scars to make them equivalent.
 

The Fists were a good illustration, in that they folded in Crimson Fists to warrant the book – but as for the other successors..? Well, therein hangs a story.

 

Codex Supplements worked for near-Codex Chapters like Dark Angels or Black Templars – ie different enough to have some proper crunch, but not so different – but aren’t a good fit (either too tight or too ‘spacey’) for others.

 

+++
 

To cut a long rambling post short, on the principle of ‘simplified not simple’, it makes far more sense for Ultramarines unique units – along with (and I’m sad to say) Iron Hands, Salamanders, White Scars, Raven Guard etc. to be part of a single Codex Space Marines book as illustrations of what a Space Marine Chapter can look like; with their special units locked behind a keyword.

[jonjacob]

I'm of two minds about calgar. He'll could be locked in to the victrix. But as a leader... I think it will not make a blind bit of sense to do so as he could be better suited to a gravis body guard unit. Changing the status quo now would be silly. 

 

I do get the feeling victrix will give lone wolf to characters within 3 with a 2+ / 4++ at 3 wounds. Fluff inclusive they are know to protect all ultramarines characters, not just calgar.

 

I do hope terminator calgar come back from legends now... 

 

As for Legends, honour guard, champion and ancient where not on the list of retirement model. This is not to say it won't happen when codex Marines drop but I doubt it for this edition. Plus they aren't on rotation, you can still buy them.

Sicarius, telion, chronus, Cassius and tyranic war vets are on rotation but are still being sold as of this month. 

 

Honestly I do think the above mentioned units will get a revist but not all in one addition. 

Edited May 23, 2023 by jonjacob

[Captain Idaho]

Probably right we'll see all the various subfactions in the Codex/data card stack.

[Tacitus]

23 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

They've only ever done it once - there's never been unique supplements for the Ultramarines bar 8th. 

 

I hope we do get a supplement. There's always room for unique things to be added to the Ultramarines. 

 

I doubt it though. The noises GW have made promoting the death of subfactions is quite telling. 

 

There might be a unique data card set for Chapters but really only Ultramarines need them. Little point selling a set just for the likes of Iron Hands who only have 1 character. 

 

Be strange how they're gonna approach it. Buying data cards for a faction and having all the Ultramarines, White Scars etc characters when you collect Raven Guard seems wasteful and likely more expensive than other factions for little benefit. 

 

It's a real conundrum. 

That's because before then all the UM Characters were in the SM Codex.  Sure they could put them all in the SM Codex, but I'd rather bet on them trying to sell us another $20 book. 

22 hours ago, lansalt said:

Ultras had also their own codex in 2nd edition, IIRC.

Well it was called Codex Ultramarine, but it was really the generic chapter codex with UM characters in it. 

[Tacitus]

19 hours ago, jonjacob said:

I'm of two minds about calgar. He'll could be locked in to the victrix. But as a leader...

Oh Victrix may be one of the squad types he can join, but when I said he was locked into them, its because the come in the same box. 

[Captain Idaho]

7 hours ago, Tacitus said:

That's because before then all the UM Characters were in the SM Codex.  Sure they could put them all in the SM Codex, but I'd rather bet on them trying to sell us another $20 book. 

 

That's likely to sucker me in lol

 

I want a supplement! 

 

[Subtleknife]

Personally I'm of the view all first founding should get a special book or none should - just to keep it fair for everyone.

 

There is no reason why GW cant create lore and models for each first founding. 8th seemed like a step in the right direction. 10th seems to be dumbing things down in this regard.

[Tacitus]

5 hours ago, Subtleknife said:

Personally I'm of the view all first founding should get a special book or none should - just to keep it fair for everyone.

 

There is no reason why GW cant create lore and models for each first founding. 8th seemed like a step in the right direction. 10th seems to be dumbing things down in this regard.

So am I - and 9th also went that direction turning DA/BA/SW into a supplements as well.  I'm of the opinion that each First Founding should get their Chapter Command+ - Master, Chief Libby, MoS Chappy, etc. plus 1 Captain for their most famous/figurehead company + any one-offs like Apothecary Corbulo or Telion etc.