RIP Crusader Squads into 1k Sons

[9x19 Parabellum]

You guys see the 1k Sons preview? Twist of Fate = no armor saves for 1 unit for the entire phase.  I highly doubt we will see Uphold The Honour return in it's current form.

RIP anything but MSU going into 1k Sons.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Is this really a huge issue if 1k sons can efficiently remove ONE unit without an invulnerable save per turn? Also, only if they have enough Cabal points.  Furthermore, we do not know anything about possible counterplay from Templars.  In fact we know almost nothing about any codex/army so far since 99% of datasheets are unknown to us.  We also know nothing about the tournament pack.   

 

It is already the case in 9th that 1ksons can quickly remove a crusader squad so why is it an obvious problem in 10th when we know very little?

 

[Tokugawa]

TSons were not very popular and will not be, due to players population. 

 

Marine oath, will be.

 

Tanks with blast weapons, will be. 

 

Tools which forcing one unit take battle shock tests, possibly will be. GW are pushing new morale design hard. 

 

There are already many previewed 10th features which have negative opinions towards big horde infantry units. With or without TSons, 10th could kill them. 

[Urkh]

A 20 man crusader squad will still require twice the volume of shots compared to any other chapter without access to 20 man squads. And the more they shoot our crusaders, the less they're shooting our sword brethren.

[Sea Creature]

Seems to me the devout will have the Emperor’s divine protection.

[9x19 Parabellum]

I never had an issue keeping my 20 man crusader squad alive in 9th.  Yes it would take a beating but between Uphold, Aurelian shroud, Apothecary, and litany of protection I could keep my 20 man crusader squad.in tact. 

 

Yes it's true any army can can probably whittle down a fortified 20 man squad if they throw literally all their shooting at it.  But a psychic power which disallows armor saves makes it that much easier to accomplish this. I honestly have no idea what game you guys are playing if you think that completely disallowing armor saves is not super strong if not OP.  It is equivalent to saying "pick an enemy unit...against that unit all weapons' AP is increased to -6.

[Sir Clausel]

The t sons ability to remove armor saves is indeed very very very powerful. But it is one army that can do that. 

It does feel that overall the damage is slightly reduced. We dont know enough yet to rule out 20 man squads yet.

[9x19 Parabellum]

12 hours ago, Sir Clausel said:

The t sons ability to remove armor saves is indeed very very very powerful. But it is one army that can do that. 

It does feel that overall the damage is slightly reduced. We dont know enough yet to rule out 20 man squads yet.

 

How does that make it balanced that only army can do that?

 

Consider for a moment, Hail of Doom.

 

Hail of Doom was probably the largest army-wide buff from 9th edition that increased weapon AP across an entire army's shooting.

Assuming you leaned into Shuriken weapons (and who wouldn't if you took this Craftworld ability?), roughly something like 1/4 of all shots from an Aeldari army got their AP increased by 2. 

 

That buff was so strong that it got nerfed.   Now that was in 9th edition, which, by all intent that we've so far heard, was an edition that is/was supposed to be more deadly than 10th edition.

 

Twist of Fate is waaaay beyond that in power.

 

 

[Sir Clausel]

I feel you. That ability is really damn powerful. Like kinda broken powerful.

We dont know exactly how many cabal points they will get or what kind of other weapons they have. Its also a good ability against tanks. Not so sure it will invalidate the 20 man squad yet. Maybe they wont have alot of other stuff to deal with the big stuff. 

All im saying is we dont know everything yet. We might also get some anti psyker stuff like we have had for a while now. Then again we might lose it :p 

[9x19 Parabellum]

Well we know Ahriman generates 3 cabal points and rubrics 1.  So....Let's imagine Ahriman (3) an Infernal Master (2) and a Tzaangor Sorc (2), along with 2 units of Rubrics (2) and 2 units of SoT (2).   Not sure if anyone else will get them but that's 11 cabal points there.   I'm sure that's lowballing the amount of Cabal pt generation if you really lean into it.  But then also Ahriman allows for a free Ritual once per game, and the Mutilith doubles the range.  So turn 1, you evaporate 1 unit with shooting, turn 2 you evaporate the 2nd unit, as well as the 3rd unit when Ahriman allows it in the Fight Phase on the terminators who charged in. 

[Kastor Krieg]

re: Uphold - it gives 6+ FnP and Primarch level Leadership (5+) to all units.

[Tokugawa]

Imperium players could always keep the option of shave ~100pts from list to take more tools against mages. We haven't seen the profile of Culexus yet. If Culexus is not good, then we may try to gamble one-shot KO Ahriman.

[redmapa]

It seems like the Crusader squad has the Scout rule, you can sort the unit in the webstore by using the Scout category so it's either because the neophytes or it has the Scout USR which would be an amazing rule to have on this unit. 20 man bricks getting a free move? SCOUTING LAND RAIDERS? That'd be sweet, fingers crossed its real.

[Jimbobbyish]

I'm a SW player, but when I was looking over the gladius detachment for SM it accrued to me that there are no restrictions.

why not take a maxed crusader squad with a librarian? Even if Twist of Fate removes your armor you'll still have a 4++ invulnerable save.

[Tokugawa]

2 hours ago, Jimbobbyish said:

I'm a SW player, but when I was looking over the gladius detachment for SM it accrued to me that there are no restrictions.

why not take a maxed crusader squad with a librarian? Even if Twist of Fate removes your armor you'll still have a 4++ invulnerable save.

1. Bring "psyker" keyword to unit would cause random disadvantages.

2. Most templar players I known have some "pride" about don't wanna play "ultramarines painted in black".

3. Although the sample size is tiny, Templars models perform better in templars detachment than in gladius.

[9x19 Parabellum]

Hey Tokugawa, how do you know the BT data in the above screenshot is playing in a Righteous Crusaders detachment and not a Gladius detachment?

[Tokugawa]

1 hour ago, 9x19 Parabellum said:

Hey Tokugawa, how do you know the BT data in the above screenshot is playing in a Righteous Crusaders detachment and not a Gladius detachment?

https://40kmetamonday.wordpress.com/2023/07/10/7-10-23/

 

The website would list different lines if players play with gladius instead of their original detachment.