Index stand outs

[Stargate_wars]

5 minutes ago, Lord_Ikka said:

? Redemptor and Ballistus both have Dreadnought keyword.

They have Redemptor Dreadnought and Ballistus Dreadnought keyword which is not Dreadnought keyword same thing applies to the Contemptor Dreadnought which also does not have the Dreadnought keyword.

Edited June 10, 2023 by Stargate_wars

[Lord_Ikka]

9 minutes ago, Stargate_wars said:

They have Redemptor Dreadnought and Ballistus Dreadnought keyword which is not Dreadnought keyword.

I must be going crazy- I could swear I looked at both of them twice and they had the Dreadnought keyword before their own special dread keyword. 

 

 

Anyway, another decent-looking unit for me is the Firestrike turret. With the twin las-talons bumping up to 36", it might work pretty well as a rear-line fire support unit. Points dependent, but with a 2+ BS and re-rolling wounds, it could be quite useful as a transport-killer (transports seem like they are going to be back on the menu...)

 

Edited June 10, 2023 by Lord_Ikka

[Tacitus]

That's my point, you don't even need to.  CTRL+F "Anti-Fly brings up 15 results.  Redemptor Chassis, Gladiators, Repulsors, both of the gun options for the Impulsor, 

 

Chances are, you were already taking a couple or more Redemptor Chassis for their "anti-vehicle" but not ANTI-VEHICLE fists plus whatever else fit into your theme, its not going to be rare to see some Repulsors ferrying beat sticks around.   On the bright side the Brutalis only has Anti-Fly 4+ - on an A3, RF3 S4 Twin Linked gun - Assault Marines probably snicker because S4 v T4, but Inceptors are standing there yelling "What did I ever do to you?".   Now even if you take a bunch of these units, an actual Aircraft is unlikely to get one-turn'ed by this "plinking" approach due to low AP and usually D1, but it's probably going to be carnage for Seraphim, Windriders, Swooping Hawks, -Thropes, Wind Riders/Shroud Runners/Deff Kopta types, Vespid, Gargoyles, Storm Boyz, Spores?, and maybe even First Born Speeders.   And it's a potential backdoor into cheap bleed/bonus damage vs the Fire Prism, Falcon, Devilfish etc.

[Tacitus]

11 minutes ago, Lord_Ikka said:

I must be going crazy- I could swear I looked at both of them twice and they had the Dreadnought keyword before their own special dread keyword. 

 

 

Anyway, another decent-looking unit for me is the Firestrike turret. With the twin las-talons bumping up to 36", it might work pretty well as a rear-line fire support unit. Points dependent, but with a 2+ BS and re-rolling wounds, it could be quite useful as a transport-killer (transports seem like they are going to be back on the menu...)

 

I've wanted to like them ever since they came out.  I even had a sort-of list with 3 TFC and 3 sets of Firestrikes (Because the TFC Gunner could heal the Firestrikes too) - when they got free upgrades it was even close to plausible.  One of the problems/tricks with the current iteration is going to be consistently and cheaply getting the Overwatch stratagem used on them.   At that point they pretty much get one and a half shooting turns per battle round.  Sadly they lost half their shots to become twin linked too.   If I were doing that I think I'd be more tempted by the autocannon - more shots, and Flat D3 would make them pretty good vs Gravis/Terminator type targets.  The lastalon did not get the same buff the lascannon got so its not going to fill that anti-tank niche like it used to.

[Lord_Ikka]

8 minutes ago, Tacitus said:

I've wanted to like them ever since they came out.  I even had a sort-of list with 3 TFC and 3 sets of Firestrikes (Because the TFC Gunner could heal the Firestrikes too) - when they got free upgrades it was even close to plausible.  One of the problems/tricks with the current iteration is going to be consistently and cheaply getting the Overwatch stratagem used on them.   At that point they pretty much get one and a half shooting turns per battle round.  Sadly they lost half their shots to become twin linked too.   If I were doing that I think I'd be more tempted by the autocannon - more shots, and Flat D3 would make them pretty good vs Gravis/Terminator type targets.  The lastalon did not get the same buff the lascannon got so its not going to fill that anti-tank niche like it used to.

It all depends on points for the Firestrike. The las-talon is going to be good against anything T10 or lower, which right now looks likely to be most transports and lighter armor (including Dreads and Armigers). I think the Overwatch trick is iffy- it seems ok but I'm not looking at the turrets because of it. If the point cost is reasonable, they could be really handy things to drop in your backfield and annoy the enemy with.

[Tacitus]

30 minutes ago, Lord_Ikka said:

It all depends on points for the Firestrike. The las-talon is going to be good against anything T10 or lower, which right now looks likely to be most transports and lighter armor (including Dreads and Armigers). I think the Overwatch trick is iffy- it seems ok but I'm not looking at the turrets because of it. If the point cost is reasonable, they could be really handy things to drop in your backfield and annoy the enemy with.

 

The Autocannon is S9 - which will hit First born Dreads Rhinos etc. but if I'm taking Anti-Tank I'm looking at T12 Land Raiders and Knights and such to be part of that threat band.  I think I can fake it til I make it on the Speeders and such.  But to each their own, and you may have different supporting units in mind than I do and thus different strengths, weaknesses and holes to fill. 

 

While I agree pulling off the trick is iffy based on the impression we're getting of CP generation - it is still one of the main selling points of the turret much like the Bunker being able to "overwatch" 4 times in the opponent's movement phase is one of it's raison d'etre. 

 

[Blindhamster]

the more i think about it, I think incursors and... reivers may be unsung heroes of the index.

 

incursors help make other units in the army better, even without it being the OoM target.

 

Reivers though... they can win you games, forcing battleshock tests as often as they do (every round they're in melee) and making the check with a penalty is very very cool, its the sort of ability that can create some real clutch victories. And that isn't even considering the fact all their attacks have precision, even with AP0, directing the entire units attacks on enemy leaders is going to be brutal for taking out characters, particularly in armies like guard where the characters are the ones packing most of the punch not to mention the bonus rules.

[Captain Idaho]

Flying under the radar (pun intended) but Land Speeder Tornadoes causing Mortal Wounds for flying over targets, then slamming them with an Assault Cannon Devastating Hits will be mean.

 

Another one people aren't talking about much is the Thunderfire Cannon. -2 move for free each turn... ouch.

[CCE1981]

Impulsors have Firing Deck 6

 

 

What I am starting to notice is that Characters can be incredibly prevalent.  Points dependent Space Wolves shouldn’t have too much trouble having Characters get their Detachment abilities.  

I kinda like that it requires a lot of interactions between units to get powerful affects.  I only hope it doesn’t turn into a schoolyard “while I can…”, “while I can fight…”

[Tacitus]

2 hours ago, CCE1981 said:

Impulsors have Firing Deck 6

 

I assume you're talking about the Desolators in there?

 

The problem with that is Firing Deck allows X models to shoot one weapon.

The Castellan Launcher is One weapon.

The Missle Launcher is another One Weapon. 

You have to pick.

[CCE1981]

Infernus squad for drive bye burning

 

Hellblasters to place the Mortal wounds on the tank instead of the squad

 

2x squads of Eliminators for mobile Sniper support

 

plenty of fun there.

[Tacitus]

34 minutes ago, CCE1981 said:

Infernus squad for drive bye burning

 

Hellblasters to place the Mortal wounds on the tank instead of the squad

 

2x squads of Eliminators for mobile Sniper support

 

plenty of fun there.

You want the mortals on the Hellblasters.  They Die, but shoot overcharged again first.  Then you resurrect the dead with your Apothecary.

 

The Eliminators have some potential - and with either weapon choice. 

[CCE1981]

It’s a cool ability that Hellblasters can do that, but an Apothecary won’t be able to keep up.  Eventually the Squad will die.  Prolonging that and placing 10 plasma shots with a lot of mobility is incredible.

[CCE1981]

The Hunter Skyfire Missile hits Monsters / Vehicles on a 2+ in overwatch.  That isn’t too shabby.

[Tacitus]

2 hours ago, CCE1981 said:

 

2x squads of Eliminators for mobile Sniper support

 

I keep coming back to this.  An Impulsor with six Las Fusil Eliminators and a Shield Dome.  Running around 12" blasting out 6 S9 -3 D3 shots plus a few Storm Bolter shots from a T9 3+ 5++ chassis? 

[CCE1981]

Damage d6 shots from the Las fusils

[Tacitus]

3 minutes ago, CCE1981 said:

Damage d6 shots from the Las fusils

You're right, I fat-fingered the number pad. 

[Captain Idaho]

Full Assault squad with jump packs, Chaplain with Jump Pack... Hammer of Wrath on the charge for 4+ Mortal Wounds per model, then the following ability for more fun:

 

 

then +1 to wound as well.

 

The squad will cause quite the stir.

[Karhedron]

8 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

Full Assault squad with jump packs, Chaplain with Jump Pack... Hammer of Wrath on the charge for 4+ Mortal Wounds per model, then the following ability for more fun:

 

Assault squads have the same number of attacks as Assault Intercessors. It is almost like they have the Primaris profile baked in. 

[Captain Idaho]

Techmarines with full Servo Harness (no longer called that) are basically blenders now. Especially if they suffer a loss to the precious armoury relics.

[highwind]

22 hours ago, L30n1d4s said:

1 - Impulsors -- At first, I thought they were not that great, then I realized that they had Firing Deck 6 and can take any Tacticus or Phobos Infantry. Some great candidates to just use the Impuslor as a bunker include Hellblasters (lots of Plasma),

The really fun (and potentially "broken", depending on point costs) interaction here is, that with Hellblasters firing out of the Impulsor any failed "Hazardous" tests does NOT kill a Hellblaster model but instead does 3 MWs on the Impulsor (because, as of the "Firing Deck" rule, the transport counts as the model shooting).

 

22 hours ago, L30n1d4s said:

2 - Razorbacks with Heavy Flamer Devastators -- A bit specialized here, but you can put a squad of 5 Devastators with 4 x Heavy Flamer/1 x Hand Flamer, plus a Librarian... have the Razorback move within 12" of a target, drop of the passengers, hit the enemy unit with a bunch of assault cannon shots (which means the Devastators/Librarian now re-roll to wound against it), then unleash the Heavy Flamers/Hand Flamer/Librarian Smite and melt (literally) most infantry units into the ground.

Devastators are sadly "unjoinable" by ANY character, including Librarians - but an otherwise nice combo which would prolly work without the Lib and which I hadnt thought of myself yet :)

 

22 hours ago, L30n1d4s said:

3 - Bike Chaplain with the "Bolter Discipline" Enhancement, attached to max squad of Outriders/Invader with MM -- Set your army to Devastator Doctrine, get within 12" of a target unit, then activate Oath of Moment and the Chaplain's ability to give the whole unit Devastating Wounds for shooting.... that makes for 16 x S4 AP-1 shots, all with Sustained Hits on 5+s and Devastating Wounds on 4+s... you should average about 18 hits (thanks to exploding hits), then about 6 MWs with full re-rolls... add in the Multi-Melta shooting and then follow it with a charge to finish off any survivors, with the Chaplain giving +1 to Wound to the unit (24 attacks on the Outriders, plus 5 more Crozius attacks from the Chaplain) and everyone getting full re-rolls to hit/to wound.... should be able to take on some of even the toughest units in the game with the raw amount of damage it can put out.

Bike Captain with Powefist and "The Honor Vehement" in maxed squad of Outrider/Invader with MM (or Bikes/Attack Bike with MM as cheap alternative). The Outriders/Bikes "Turbo Boost" gives the whole unit 6" advance, the Biker Captains "Swift Assault" lets them still shoot after advancing. "Rites of Battle" for 0CP "Adaptive Strategy" (=> Assault Doctrin) every round and they can also charge; 18"advance+shoot+charge and the Captains Powerfist has permant S10 7A ("The Honor Vehement" + Assault doctrin.

 

22 hours ago, L30n1d4s said:

6 - Uriel Ventris + Marneus Calgary/Victrix Honour Guard attached to 6 x Aggressors -- Ventris uses his ability to make Calgar/Bodyguards/Aggressors Deep Strike, they come in on turn 2, light up an opponent with massed Flamestorm shooting, then charge in, with Calgar adding his massive close combat ability into the mix. From there on out, he can have the unit advance and shoot/charge or fall back and shoot/charge, wrecking havoc in the heart of your opponent's army all game long.

Lovely idea (really!) but sadly cannot attach two "Leader" units (Uriel and Marneus) to the same unit of Aggressors without any special rules (which neither of them has).

 

[L30n1d4s]

Don't need Uriel to attach to the Aggressors... his rule just let's him pick any unit and give it DS... he can then join a different unit.

 

Good point on the Libby not being able to join Devastators.

[BrainFireBob]

Just noticed this.

 

Core rules put you at a max of 2 characters.

 

SM cards only allow a few units to double up. Apoth+Captains/Lieutenants, as an example

 

This increases the value of both the Command Squad and Deathwing Command Squad, with their built-in 3 "free" characters.

 

Edit: You attach a Librarian, you've got a nasty tough unit.

 

Edited June 11, 2023 by BrainFireBob

[highwind]

22 hours ago, Stargate_wars said:

They have Redemptor Dreadnought and Ballistus Dreadnought keyword which is not Dreadnought keyword same thing applies to the Contemptor Dreadnought which also does not have the Dreadnought keyword.

If you take speech very serious and very literal "Redemptor Dreadnought" cannot be "a keyword" (singular) because it is two words (plural) so "Redemptor" is one keyword and "Dreadnought" another one...

GW (again) missed defining that "a keyword" (or better "one single keyword") is actually all the words not seperated by a comma...

A better term would be "key expression" anyways (because an expression can consist of more than one word)

 

1 hour ago, L30n1d4s said:

Don't need Uriel to attach to the Aggressors... his rule just let's him pick any unit and give it DS... he can then join a different unit.

Indeed! Nice find :)

Edited June 11, 2023 by highwind

[Tacitus]

39 minutes ago, highwind said:

If you take speech very serious and very literal "Redemptor Dreadnought" cannot be "a keyword" (singular) because it is two words (plural) so "Redemptor" is one keyword and "Dreadnought" another one...

GW (again) missed defining that "a keyword" (or better "one single keyword") is actually all the words not seperated by a comma...

A better term would be "key expression" anyways (because an expression can consist of more than one word)

 

Indeed! Nice find :)

Yeah but we already have precedent for it being the other way with the Primaris Company Command needing a FAQ to take Chapter Command.