Index stand outs

[highwind]

1 hour ago, BrainFireBob said:

This increases the value of both the Command Squad and Deathwing Command Squad, with their built-in 3 "free" characters.

Doubtful because the Command Squads three "free" characters cannot support any unit actually worth it, but only themselves

+1 OC value on a 5-man OC1 squad => thats the same OC value as any naked Intercessor squad

Return one model per turn of a 5-man T4 W3 3+ => any meaningfull shooting/melee will kill this unit outright in one turn

+1 advance and charge => the Champions Blade has a halfway decent profile (but is still miles aways from the Primaris Champions profile, lacking 1A, 1WS and the martial superiorty rule), the Apothecary only has a Chainsword, the Bannerbearer not even that and the 2 veterans "best" options are 2A Powerfists or 4A Lightning Claws... but besides that rather lackluster offensive melee capabilties of this unit, the most important fact is, we are looking at basic power armored 6" footsloggers!

 

If Deathwing Command Squad actually getting the same treatment, thats a different story, as Terminators got way more punch, way more staying power and can deep strike and would be worthy "self buff targets"

But as the "Ancient in Terminator" already got its own datasheet (being a character), I wouldnt bet my money on Deathwing Commands Squads with Apo+Ancient+Champ+2 Vets being a single non-character unit... 

[highwind]

5 minutes ago, Tacitus said:

Yeah but we already have precedent for it being the other way with the Primaris Company Command needing a FAQ to take Chapter Command. 

 

Jeah, its obvious that its meant that way

 

Last edition was even more tricky when Sergeant Chronus could command a vehicle that "has one of the following keywords" [...] VINDICATOR [...]

The Vindicator Laser Destroyer had "VINDICATOR LASER DESTROYER" so "VINDICATOR" technically was one of the keywords

[Karhedron]

How about a 10-man Desolator squad led by a Librarian with Bolter Discipline? A 4++ and Sustained Hits would be pretty good on these guys.

 

Too bad you can't have Lt lead them but maybe GW figured Lethal Hits on a squad with that many shots might not actually be very much fun.

[Captain Idaho]

7 hours ago, BrainFireBob said:

Just noticed this.

 

Core rules put you at a max of 2 characters.

 

 

Wait I can't find that?

[Vardus]

Nothing in the core rules puts you at a maximum of Characters, just a minimum. I think BrainFireBob is referring to the Data cards and who can attach to what unit.

[Karhedron]

Where are the rules on how many characters can be attached to a squad? Lts say they can be attached to a squad, even if a Captain has already joined a squad. This implies you can't simply add as many characters as you like to a unit but I can't find it spelled out anywhere.

 

NVM Just found on P39 of the main rules.

Edited June 11, 2023 by Karhedron

[CCE1981]

3 hours ago, Vardus said:

Nothing in the core rules puts you at a maximum of Characters, just a minimum. I think BrainFireBob is referring to the Data cards and who can attach to what unit.

Core rules says maximum of 1.  Several Space Marine Characters can attach even if certain other Characters are attached.  Based on the terminology no more than two can be attached.

[Lord_Ikka]

Core rules state that only one Leader can be attached to a Bodyguard unit. SM has three units that override this rule Apothecaries (Primaris only),  Ancients, and LTs, all three of which can attach to a unit that already has a Captain or Chapter Master attached. There is no rule stating you can only have one of these additional Leaders attached.

Edited June 11, 2023 by Lord_Ikka

[Vardus]

45 minutes ago, CCE1981 said:

Core rules says maximum of 1.  Several Space Marine Characters can attach even if certain other Characters are attached.  Based on the terminology no more than two can be attached.

 

Sorry, I was trying to clarify that Army construction has no character limits but the Index changes Leader attachments, just probably didn't explain it right?

[CCE1981]

1 hour ago, Lord_Ikka said:

Core rules state that only one Leader can be attached to a Bodyguard unit. SM has three units that override this rule Apothecaries (Primaris only),  Ancients, and LTs, all three of which can attach to a unit that already has a Captain or Chapter Master attached. There is no rule stating you can only have one of these additional Leaders attached.

But once you attach them the Bodyguard unit is being led by one Captain, Chapter Master or Lieutenant AND Apothecary/Ancient, preventing adding another. 
 

1 hour ago, Vardus said:

Sorry, I was trying to clarify that Army construction has no character limits but the Index changes Leader attachments, just probably didn't explain it right?

Gotchya

[Captain Idaho]

Here's another one I love... Hunters:

 

Fires in your turn, then Overwatch a vehicle in their movement phase hitting on a 2+, then potentially fire Overwatch at a vehicle or monster if it dares to charge and hit again on a 2+.

 

3 big shots a turn potentially, easily 2.

 

Only real problem would be it's only S10, but against flyers it'll be Mortal Wounds on a 3+.

 

***

 

Missed the last sentence... it's once per turn. So no more than 2 shots a turn. Still good, as otherwise would be broken against some armies.

Edited June 11, 2023 by Captain Idaho

[CCE1981]

Fire Overwatch is only once per turn.

[Captain Idaho]

You're right, but 2 shots is still good. I'll adjust top post.

[Metzombie]

I am pretty sure the Hunter does not hin on a 2+ if firing overwatch. Each other rule modifing the hit roll for overwatch explicitly says so. But the rule for the Hunter does not mention overwatch.

[Oxydo]

On 6/9/2023 at 9:55 PM, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Let’s use this thread to talk about rules/abilities in the index that really standout compared to the 9th codex.

 

right now RAS w/JP seems brutal. MWs ona 4+ after the charge. 1 roll for every model in the enemy unit. That seems OP. I think they’ll be an auto take for most people now.

The HoW ability is based on the Assault squad, not the enemy unit. Aka 5 Assault marines gives you 5 dice. The enemy unit's numbers are irrelevant.

Edited June 11, 2023 by Oxydo

[BrainFireBob]

15 hours ago, highwind said:

Doubtful because the Command Squads three "free" characters cannot support any unit actually worth it, but only themselves

+1 OC value on a 5-man OC1 squad => thats the same OC value as any naked Intercessor squad

Return one model per turn of a 5-man T4 W3 3+ => any meaningfull shooting/melee will kill this unit outright in one turn

+1 advance and charge => the Champions Blade has a halfway decent profile (but is still miles aways from the Primaris Champions profile, lacking 1A, 1WS and the martial superiorty rule), the Apothecary only has a Chainsword, the Bannerbearer not even that and the 2 veterans "best" options are 2A Powerfists or 4A Lightning Claws... but besides that rather lackluster offensive melee capabilties of this unit, the most important fact is, we are looking at basic power armored 6" footsloggers!

 

If Deathwing Command Squad actually getting the same treatment, thats a different story, as Terminators got way more punch, way more staying power and can deep strike and would be worthy "self buff targets"

But as the "Ancient in Terminator" already got its own datasheet (being a character), I wouldnt bet my money on Deathwing Commands Squads with Apo+Ancient+Champ+2 Vets being a single non-character unit... 

Really, it's the champion apothecary combo- apoth can bring him back as part of the squad.

[Blindhamster]

12 minutes ago, BrainFireBob said:

Really, it's the champion apothecary combo- apoth can bring him back as part of the squad.

as a non character, yeah absolutely, same for the ancient.

[BrainFireBob]

I mean, is it good enough? Depends on points. But it might be a sleeper

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

7 hours ago, Oxydo said:

The HoW ability is based on the Assault squad, not the enemy unit. Aka 5 Assault marines gives you 5 dice. The enemy unit's numbers are irrelevant.

Oh I thought it was based on enemy unit size.

[CCE1981]

Interesting…. Deploy Hellblasters in an Impulsor.  On your turn buff the Impulsor from a Primaris Techmarine, then embark the Techmarine and move the Impulsor and fire out the tophatch.

[mertbl]

30 minutes ago, CCE1981 said:

Interesting…. Deploy Hellblasters in an Impulsor.  On your turn buff the Impulsor from a Primaris Techmarine, then embark the Techmarine and move the Impulsor and fire out the tophatch.

Keep him behind the impulsor to keep buffing it. He gains lone operative within 3" of a vehicle and he can only buff in command phase. 

Edited June 12, 2023 by mertbl

[Karhedron]

So, points aside, what do we think the optimum loadout is going to be for Assault Squads with Jump Packs? I am thinking:

 

Seargent with Power Fist, Grav/Inferno pistol, Shield

1 x Eviscerator

2 x Melta Gun

1 x BP/CS (aka Private Bulletcatcher)

 

That is a squad that can put a lot of high quality shots and attacks out as well as dealing a couple of MWs on the charge.

[Karhedron]

9 hours ago, CCE1981 said:

Interesting…. Deploy Hellblasters in an Impulsor.  On your turn buff the Impulsor from a Primaris Techmarine, then embark the Techmarine and move the Impulsor and fire out the tophatch.

 

+1 BS on 10-12 Plasma shots is pretty nice and he can repair Overheat damage on the Impulsor too since plasma damage goes on the tank rather than on the Hellbasters . I actually have all those units and I think it would be pretty funny to try.

 

Plus if you opponent gets annoyed by the drive-by shooting antics and takes does the Impulsor, the Hellblasters simply climb out and carry on while the Techmarine goes Super Saiyan. 

[Captain Idaho]

41 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

So, points aside, what do we think the optimum loadout is going to be for Assault Squads with Jump Packs? I am thinking:

 

Seargent with Power Fist, Grav/Inferno pistol, Shield

1 x Eviscerator

2 x Melta Gun

1 x BP/CS (aka Private Bulletcatcher)

 

That is a squad that can put a lot of high quality shots and attacks out as well as dealing a couple of MWs on the charge.

 

Yeah I'd say that's fairly standard for competitive play - ain't getting much better eh. A trio of such units in Razorbacks I can see being the new hotness.

[CCE1981]

This edition two melta guns won’t really do anything.  Probably 3x plasma pistols, power fist, shield and eviserator for a 5-man squad.