Grey Knights Index

[TrawlingCleaner]

The only thing they fear is you

Edited June 14, 2023 by TrawlingCleaner

[Valerian]

Grey Knights Index is Up.

[Holier Than Thou]

At first glance.....interesting.

 

No Apothecary for Paladins but strength 5-9 weapons need a 4+ to wound them and strength 10 and above needs a 3+.

Librarian's Vortex power is risky but potentially deadly

I think I'd take normal NDK over GMNDKs as the stats are the exact same, only the abilities are different

 

Lots to think about

[Valerian]

I'm not quite all the way through every unit datasheet, but by The Emperor, I love this Index!  Almost everything about it is amazing, and just what I could ask for.  All of the Characters are good - even Stern!  even Brotherhood Champions!

[Holier Than Thou]

C+P'd what I wrote in the News & Rumours topic.

 

At first glance.....interesting.

 

No Apothecary for Paladins but strength 5-9 weapons need a 4+ to wound them and strength 10 and above needs a 3+.

Librarian's Vortex power is risky but potentially deadly

I think I'd take normal NDK over GMNDKs as the stats are the exact same, only the abilities are different

 

Lots to think about.

 

Edit: Am I right in thinking that if you attach a Brotherhood Champion to a Strike Squad, the Strikes will lose their Scout move?

Edited June 14, 2023 by Holier Than Thou

[Valerian]

Unfortunately, yes, since the Scouts USR says that every model in the unit has to have it.

[Valerian]

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copied from u/krashton1 on reddit:

 

We get of Armour of Contempt (aka Truesilver Armour)?!

That's absolutely nuts to me. We already have 2+ armour save Power Armour, I never would have guessed GW ALSO gives us AoC. Absolutely nuts, we are crazy durable. Also only at 1cp.

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Still have Sigil of Excellence for teleport shenanigans when shot. Comboed with the HALOED IN SOULFIRE strategem we are going to be very difficult to even shoot at times.

edit: AND Mists of Deimos! Missed the fact on the first read that this lets us put a unit into deep strike as a reaction. Assumed it was the "stock" reactionary move most armies are getting. Nope. God we are so slippery and tough this edition.

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PROGNISTICATED ARRIVAL lets us deep strike within 3". Combined with Interceptors JSJ 6" move that now can occur even after deepstriking, could be great. Good luck screening out objectives when a interceptor unit can land within 3" of your unit and then make a 6" move.

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Our limitation on 1 Grand Master is gone. Pretty sure we can take as many GMNDKs as we want now. Could be useful to take a couple if we need the anti-tank, but because their ability only allows you to use it once across your whole army, you get diminishing returns for taking multiples. Doubly so because outside that ability (and the 1CP strat), they are identical to a normal Dreadknight. Except a normal dreadknight has the whole advance/fallback and shoot/charge thing.

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Paladins (if Im reading this right) can take 3 heavy weapons per 5 models. Could be interesting, I dont think you want to that but interesting nontheless.

They also get -1 to wound if the Strength of the opposing attack is higher is pretty cool. Pretty much a baked-in, always-on Transhuman (against the vast majority of weapons that would normally be targeting Paladins). That's kind of huge ngl.

(Normal terminators are also potentially very tough, being able to just revive one model per turn.)

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Librarian may be strong? Hard for me to tell. Able to put out 4 MWs most turns (Vortex of Doom) without rolling to hit (But having to roll to see if it splashes back). I assume his other ability for a 4+ FNP against Psychic attacks doesn't work for the splashback though, since I dont know if Vortex counts as an attack or not. It looks like the unit "just suffers the MW".

If it does give FNP against the splashback though, then it heavily mitigates the damage from rolling a 1. But I dont think it does RAW.

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Stern could be really good. Giving out "6's to wound" cause an additional MW. And an ability to just get revived for free (on a 2+) upon death. But outside that buff he is meh.

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Normal Grandmaster seems useable to me. Gets the SM ability to target his unit with a free and repeat strategem once per game. Best use is probably to get 2 uses of Haloed in Soulfire (can't be targeted outside 12") in a turn.

But not sure if he makes the cut. Has to join terminators or paladins, and Draigo/Librarian seem stronger IMHO. And Stern/Voldus feel pretty similar in power me. Since can't have multiple leaders, how likely is it that we will have so many terminator units for all the Characters to join? I probably won't run enough units to justify taking him sadly. But he is cool if you do get to that point.

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Strike squads have a sticky objective ability. Weird that it's a Psychic ability to me, since normal marines just get it as a normal ability. :shrug: Whatever, better to have it than not. They also get a Scout move? Not sure how useful that will be.

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Purifiers with their single attack Purifying Flame seem kind of meh, but hitting on 2+ when they have lost a model seems okay. Pair them with Crowe and he doubles the number of shots they are putting out, which could be really good. Not sure if we are lacking in the "Infantry killing" department, but cool nontheless.

Crowe otherwise seems kind of meh? Since he can only pair with Purifiers and doesn't get Lone Operative when not with them. But his sword gets Precision, so get him to into combat and he can take out an enemy character.

But this combo may or may not be good. Hard to say. Purifiers and Crowe survive on whether this combo is good or not. If either of them are meh, the combo is probably meh, and neither end up worth taking.

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Normal Land raider could be good. 4 Godhammer lascannon shots, and a couple multi melta shots could be okay anti-armour. Plus it can house a unit inside. Not sure though. Land raiders have been meh for so long that I can't really evaluate them well.

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Some of the downsides I see

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Dreadnoughts seem very meh. Reroll 1's aura is okay. But no -1 Damage like last edition (for being venearable), no psychic ability, and I just don't see the multi-melta or lascannon being suitable anti-armour weapons for us. Maybe if Multi-melta didn't go down to 18" range, I could see a dreadnought or 2 getting thrown around the battlefield getting melta shots off. But as-is, Im going to shelve mine for now.

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Paladin's are minimum size squad of 5. Not unexpeceted compared to what we have seen elsewhere (eg. Deathwing command units went from min size 2 to min size 5 as well)

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No way to increase AP of weapons we have. The AP we have is just that. We will just have to hope the sheer quantity of AP2 we have is enough to take down tough targets. (Not neccesarilly bad in a world where AP2 has been cut back on in other armies)

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Techmarine and Chaplain seem meh to me.

Can't see Chaplain making the cut since he can only join terminators and we just might not have enough terminator units for every leader.

Techmarine can join strike squads so that could be useful. Atleast can fit him into a unit. But not sure if handing out +1 to hit for vehicles will be useful, since it goes off in Command phase (and therefore can't target our units in Teleport Assault). But maybe with a normal NDK it will be good since they have 14" movement + Charge and can reach combat to use that 2+ to hit. But at same time, doing so is kind of anti-synergistic, since the techmarine will not be able to continue handing his buff out.

 

[Valerian]

The Goonhammer review: https://www.goonhammer.com/the-goonhammer-review-the-grey-knights-index/

[Helias_Tancred]

Initial thoughts on Grand Master Voldus?

 

 

[Valerian]

10 minutes ago, Eilio Tiberius said:

Initial thoughts on Grand Master Voldus?

 

 

Sanctuary is quite good, and works against ranged or melee attacks.

 

Hammer Aflame is decent for a couple extra mortal wounds in some of your fight phases.

 

His special Hammer his very nice with its flat D3.

 

I'd take Draigo over Voldus if you don't have enough Terminator units for both.  If the regular Grand Master's 'Master Strategist' ability is supposed to be like Rites of Battle and work once per battle round, instead of just once per battle, then I'd probably go with him, instead.  But we'll have to see if this version was a mistake, or on purpose first.

 

 

[Holier Than Thou]

I hadn’t noticed that the Marine one was  once per battle round and ours was once per battle. I’d like to think that it’s an error but it’s not like GW doesn’t have form for screwing us with this sort of thing.

[MithrilForge]

I haven’t played GK’s for many years so seeing the weapons as simply “nemesis weapons” with one stat was kinda cool , I speak for myself here in that it was always a stalling decision of what to equip the teams with , this way rule of cool is fine ! , I just hope for new models in the future , I couldn’t put these guys next to anything new these days …. I actually think new guard would be nearly as tall as the marine troops 

. 

[Lord Blacksteel]

Why wouldn't a lascannon be suitable anti-tank? Whether it's on a dreadnought or anything else?

[WAR]

Initial thoughts- Grey Knights are my go to Faction for 10th.  I like the rules now we wait to see points. 

[Helias_Tancred]

1 hour ago, WAR said:

Initial thoughts- Grey Knights are my go to Faction for 10th.  I like the rules now we wait to see points. 

 

I run primarily Blood Angels. I have 10k of Dark Angels but Im leaving them boxed up in favor of collecting/building/painting/playing around 2500 Grey Knights going into 10th alongside my boys from Baal. 

 

 

 

[WAR]

Definitely my Faction for 10th edition.   

[WAR]

After reading the Sororitas rules, they are gonna be shelved indefinitely, which really sucks as they are my favorite army since 1997. My Raptors (all phobos and scouts armours) have been kicked down as non battle line.  Raven Guard 40k has not been started but will be designed as boarding force. My Inquisitorial army took a hit with scions not having battle line so I'm gonna just build 1 10 man squad of scions. So my Grey Knights it is and they are my most painted army. 

[Borbarad]

Dug out some GK; they sound very cool. 
 

Will be a challenge to handle big vehicles though. 

[apologist]

Main critique is the stratagem called Death from the Warp was crying out to have the infinitely and objectively cooler name Death from Beyond.
 

Thanks for attending my TED talk.

[Silas7]

Daemon Hammers across the faction are gone and should have been a 1 in 5 wargear option at least, it reduces the AV capabilities of the army in a small but very noticeable way on the table.

 

PAGK's only being able to run with a brotherhood champion is better than nothing.

[MithrilForge]

3 hours ago, Borbarad said:

Dug out some GK; they sound very cool. 
 

Will be a challenge to handle big vehicles though. 

I guess that's what the Venerable Dread with lascannons and Nemesis DreadKnight with Great Hammer's Job then ??.. 

or even The Land Raider with Godhammer Lascannons... or a Razorback with Twin Lascannon...or a StormTalon with Twin LasCannon...

or a StormRaven Gunship with.... Twin Lascannon ... 

 

M. 

Edited June 15, 2023 by Mumeishi

[OttoVonAwesome]

Man I thought space wolves got hosed then I saw this index. Removing the melee options for no reason yet again only across the entire faction including characters. Bravo GW you really managed to rip the very soul out of one of the smallest army lists there is. If the goal is to not sell these models you keep gutting then you have succeeded. Blood Angels players must be feeling really lucky that GW wasn't so lazy when writing the Death Company.

Edited June 15, 2023 by OttoVonAwesome

[spessmarine]

VanVetted

They don't even have that many units or weapons to begin with. Was Nemesis single-handed for middle ground, Nemesis paired for choppy, Nemesis heavy for hammers really undo-able?

 

 

[Brother Lunkhead]

On the whole, I'm very pleased with what I'm seeing. Teleport Assault and Teleport Shunt are two features that I'm especially pleased to see. For a mallee army like the GK, these new rules can be a real game changer and features that were needed for a long time

 

I do have some concerns, but most are nitpicky things and I'll leave those alone for now. However I do have one major exception.... Where are my Apothecary and Ancient I'm hoping that these MIA characters are just an oops on the part of GW. Space Marines still have theirs and the new Leader rule gives them some good flexibility and additional uses that are very attractive. I can't see why the GKs wouldn't have them... It's not like they would give us some whopping advantage over standard space marines.

 

On 6/14/2023 at 3:32 PM, WAR said:

After reading the Sororitas rules, they are gonna be shelved indefinitely, which really sucks as they are my favorite army since 1997. My Raptors (all phobos and scouts armours) have been kicked down as non battle line.  Raven Guard 40k has not been started but will be designed as boarding force. My Inquisitorial army took a hit with scions not having battle line so I'm gonna just build 1 10 man squad of scions. So my Grey Knights it is and they are my most painted army. 

That's disappointing to see I'd really like to see parity across the board for all faction. That makes for much better playtime for all. This brings me to my main concern.  Looks like GKs are finally worth playing again... but for how long? What will we look like in six months? What about a year? Has GW turned over a new leaf, or will it be business as usual with codex creep and constant revisions? I suspect it will be the latter...

 

But, I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. For now, I like what I see and I give it a thumbs up