Chaos Space Marines 10th Ed Index - the Player's thread

[Prot]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/csv0IuVvYQAndBJE.pdf

 

I guess I'll start the thread off.... 

For those of you coming back from 9th, or those starting out your CSM journey in 10th, let's hear your thoughts!

 

I have quite a few things I do like from the new rules, and a few I'm not sure on.

 

Beastmode Chaos:

-Abe

- Haarken  Head taker ability makes a much maligned unit into a saucy fast option. (Might get my most improved vote actually... if it weren't for...)

- Helbrutes ! (What a much needed boost. Buy 2-3 while you can find them.)

- Chaos Lord. Oh how I've wanted to use this guy for years. And now, with a Daemon Hammer I just might. (0 CP strats are always good.)

- Sorcerer In termie armour. Come out of reserves, and cast "doom" on your opponent.... Might be useful.

- Dark Commune. Another most improved. I don't get it... I loved this boxset, but it was all but useless in 9th. It might be a great choice imbedded in an Accursed Cultist squad.

- Termies. We knew these would be a decent unit. They don't even really need Abaddon with their Despoiler rule reroll to hit built in.

- Possessed. Built in Mortal Wound bomb.

- Vindicators.... Vindicators??? The Demolisher Cannon might be a thing if this thing comes in cheap enough.

- Forgefiend. Boy am I glad I have two of these bad boys. Daemonic Ordnance to leverage Devastating Wounds, and both weapons have a real use.

 

Undecided Chaos:

- Chosen. Do they make their move in 10th?

- Psychics.... it's a tough pill. 

- Spawn.  Used to be my secret sauce. 

- Rhino's... who forgot to open the lid? GW seriously?

 

What did you like/dislike?

 

[gaurdian31]

I like what the Master of Possessions adds to Possessed. Demon Prince with wings and Raptors look like they would work well together, especially if Haarken is hanging out with the Raptors and I like the Exalted Champion as well for what he adds to a unit.

[Lord Abaia]

I also like that the Master of Possession is M 8". Our cool, floating guy is zipping around almost as fast as the Possessed.

[Newbiticus]

Assuming 9th edition points, what are the initial thoughts on Termie, Chosen, Possed and Legionaire squad sizes?  MSU or larger squads with a Leader for extra buffing power?

 

I was wondering about a large Chosen squad with an Exalted Champ and maybe Apostle as my centre field unit (I don’t have 10 termies).  

[MDops]

14 minutes ago, Newbiticus said:

Assuming 9th edition points, what are the initial thoughts on Termie, Chosen, Possed and Legionaire squad sizes?  MSU or larger squads with a Leader for extra buffing power?

 

I was wondering about a large Chosen squad with an Exalted Champ and maybe Apostle as my centre field unit (I don’t have 10 termies).  

 

Termie I can see being a max size as that was how they tended to be run in 9th probably with a sorcerer

 

Chosen possibly at max for the hit and run 

 

Possessed maxed if possible to make the most of the quantity and devastating wounds.

 

Legionaries might be a no-show as there is no restrictions on mere mortals and if they do show it would be as an msu

[Cryptix]

4 hours ago, gaurdian31 said:

I like what the Master of Possessions adds to Possessed. Demon Prince with wings and Raptors look like they would work well together, especially if Haarken is hanging out with the Raptors and I like the Exalted Champion as well for what he adds to a unit.

Warp Talons also look good with the flying circus, charge in with raptors and talons and if they fail any of the battleshocks it'll be hellish to get out, keeping them safe in melee.

[Rain]

I had posted earlier how I felt bad for CSM relative to World Eaters due to Dark Pacts being lackluster compared to Blessings of Khorne, but with the full indexes it looks like the tables have turned!

 

CSM look like they will have quite a few interesting options. The decision by GW to give each unit a special rule has really reinvigorated army building, and armies with the greatest unit choice benefit the most.

[abaumann]

Do we think warlord traits like Master of Diversion for Alpha legion will still be in or will these disappear? I recall reading somewhere that there are no more legion traits but wasn’t sure if that meant warlord traits or what. 

[Rain]

It doesn’t look like there are WLT at all. Each character can take 1 item from the pile of “enhancements” and that’s that. What’s especially funny is that for enhancements that are obviously weapons, such as Berzerker Glaive for World Eaters, the model doesn’t actually fight with the weapon. It’s just a stat stick, and only 1 per character.

[Volgon]

There are no more WLT, but Enhancements function as a combination of WLT and relics. We'll have to see what happens in the Space Marines dex, but for now, I think the intent is that there will be a Detachment encouraging a playstyle for each non-god aligned Legion. For example an "Disciples of the Word" detachment, which mimics general Word Bearers tactics (Possessed/Cultists/Apostles), which will include a mixture of Word Bearers WLT and relics old and new in the Enhancements section, and their own stratagems also focused on this playstyle/unit choice. Or an "Infiltration Cell" for Alpha Legion, in which case a WLT trait like Master of Diversion may make its appearance in the Enhancements section.

[TrawlingCleaner]

A case can be made for Legionaries I think, they'll be cheaper than Chosen and can be given Special/Heavy weapons. They also have a higher OC. They're pretty great for pushing onto objectives as their melee now rerolls 1 to wound all the time and full rerolls to wound Vs units on objectives. They don't need that much help to really start doing work.

Just attaching an Exalted Champion gives them +1 to hit (2s on all melee), rerolling wounds vs a unit on an objective and that's even before getting to Dark Pacts.

 

Huron is a big force multiplier/tricky dude, I think he's got a lot of potential. He'd make a 10 man Legionaire + an additional character like an Exalted Champ or MoE OC34 or a Chosen unit 24OC which really isn't anything to sniff at. It's a shame to see his T and W drop but I think he gives a lot of benefits.

 

I'm looking at both the MoE and Exalted Champ as really handy force multipliers. Whilst the MoE's buffs are conditional on the health of the enemy unit, how many times are you going to be charging a full health unit? Even missing 1 wound/model is enough to get the ball rolling, plus he's arguably much better in combat than the Exalted Champion. Exalted Champs are great for backfield/midfield Legionaires perhaps?

 

Chosen seem really fantastic, as I mentioned above, you can account for their OC shortcomings with Huron and also add extra mobility on the fly with his Hamydra ability. Interestingly, Chosen that go for Combi Weapons swap their Bolt Pistol for it and not their Bolter so a Chosen with a Combi-Weapon has: Combi-Weapon, Bolter and Accursed Weapon. Assumably it's a Copy and Paste Error

 

Venomcrawlers might secretly one of our best anti-chaff units. 12 shots at 36" range at S6 and 6 S6 attacks in combat is actually pretty great, give it Sustained Hits and really starts popping off! When it kills a unit it gets +1 attack for all weapons so it gets 14 shots after the first 16 after the second etc

 

Bikers are interesting for a number of reasons. Strangely when they take a special weapon they lose their Combi-Bolter on the front? Other than that I think they're a very flexible unit that can dip off a board edge in later turns to try and take objectives on the other side of the board or even just to keep them safe, OC2 really helps them do that

 

Havocs are pretty great, although can't take any helpful characters. Their HB have Sustained Hits on already, do they stack? Does it become Sustained Hits 2 or is it Sustained Hits 1 and Sustained Hits 1 like SH and Lethal Hits?

 

Oblits look very very good. Being able to give them Indirect (even only for the turn) is pretty massive and they're able to do it entirely safely. You don't neccessarily want them in combat but if they do go in, they've got very good odds on killing something

 

Landraiders are ace, possibly more so for Chaos than most other armies that can utilise them because we've got some many units that desperately want to get stuck in. Possessed, Chosen and even Legionaires really love Assault Ramps

 

I might sound like a stuck record but Defilers really are great this edition (for real this time!). Battlecannon, Defiler Claws, Heavy Bolters, it does it all! It's lost some Dakka output and attacks on the scourge but it's really not the end of the world in my opinion. OC5 is also very funny

 

Vashtorr has a lot of play I think. Whilst +1S isn't massive, I think it really helps push the DE's weapons into bigger targets. Defiler's Battlecannons and Ectoplasma cannons are now swinging into T10 chasis on 3s and T11 on 4s, Defiler Lascannons are on 3s into Landraiders etc. His hammer got waaaay better, on average he does 9MW to vehicles without strats, pacts etc. Interestingly, he has no marks not even Undivided? Perhaps a mistake

 

I think Daemon Engines in general came out of this laughing

 

Traitor Guardsmen are OC2? That's pretty good. Also they can take 3 sniper rifles, at 36" range they could reliably kill some weaker characters?

 

 

 

All in all, I think this Index is so rad. There's some mistakes that need addressing like no Firing Deck on rhinos, no rapid fire on Predator Desctructors etc but nothing is jumping out as overly busted and there's not much in here that doesn't have a place (subject to points of course)

 

As an aside, I've seen multiple Youtube channels mentioning unit sizes as X or Y not X to Y. I'm fairly certain that units are fixed sizes now (which would explain Oblits going up to 4 models)

Edited June 15, 2023 by TrawlingCleaner

[Kaiju Soze]

I don't think Bikers giving up the combi bolter if they take a special weapon is the intent. If it was it would closer to "up to two bikers may replace their combi-bolter with one of the following:" and include combi weapon on the list.

[danodan123]

I think chosen advancing and charging will surprise some people, a normal 6inch movement and then all of a sudden they can spring towards you!

It's nice to have some scouts with the Fellgor Beastmen, it would be nice to see some chaos infiltrators, but then I suppose you can just take some nurglings?

[TrawlingCleaner]

4 minutes ago, Kaiju Soze said:

I don't think Bikers giving up the combi bolter if they take a special weapon is the intent. If it was it would closer to "up to two bikers may replace their combi-bolter with one of the following:" and include combi weapon on the list.

Ah I must have misread that bit!

 

They're definitely handy for dakka output then! I'm not sure they really need Combi-weapon's MW output, plasma and powerfists seem pretty good at dealing with infantry?

[Kaiju Soze]

16 minutes ago, TrawlingCleaner said:

Ah I must have misread that bit!

 

They're definitely handy for dakka output then! I'm not sure they really need Combi-weapon's MW output, plasma and powerfists seem pretty good at dealing with infantry?

I can see someone might misread the wording, which is a little vague.

 

Bikers with a pair iof plasma guns or flamers continue to throw out all of the shots.

[danodan123]

I'm assuming not, however, does a warpsmith attached to a unit of havocs, near a vehicle portray the lone operative rule to the havocs?

[MDops]

19 minutes ago, danodan123 said:

I'm assuming not, however, does a warpsmith attached to a unit of havocs, near a vehicle portray the lone operative rule to the havocs?

Nah (pg 19), looks like if they are solo they get the benefit otherwise ignore