Infiltrators vs Eliminators vs Scout Snipers as backfield Objective Campers

[Karhedron]

I am thinking of different possibilities for backfield Objective holders and snipers seem like a good option with Stealth and optional rules to prevent them being targetted outside 12".

 

At the moment I am leaning towards sniper Scouts as they are cheap and have the Concealed Positions rule so they cannot be targetted outside 12". They are the cheapest option at 75/150 for 5/10 and Sniper rifles are OK in 10th ed.

 

Eliminators get better guns but are pricey at 95 points for 3. Whilst their guns are better, you get fewer shots out of the squad. You can add a Phobos Librarian to make them untargettable outside 12" but he does not add much to their utility otherwise.

 

Infiltrators with a Phobos Libby are the best defensively as they cannot be targetted outside 12" and enemy cannot Deep Strike within 12". But again the Librarian is kinda wasted on the backfield. I feel this squad would be better deployed on an Objective in no-mans-land, preferably on a flank.

 

So overall I think I am leaning towards Scout Snipers for my backfield Objective campers. They are cheap at only 15ppm but still have 2 wounds. They cannot be targetted outside 12" and within that they are still at -1 to Hit. If the enemy wants to get them off that Objective they will actually have to come and get them. Meanwhile each one gets a 36" S4 shot with Ap-2 and 2D. A pretty nice package for the points.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Yea scout snipers not needing any further investment is a huge selling point. You pay 75, put them down, kinda scare the opponent for character placement, and don't have to worry about anything but really fast/deepstrike stuff.

[Tacitus]

3 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Yea scout snipers not needing any further investment is a huge selling point. You pay 75, put them down, kinda scare the opponent for character placement, and don't have to worry about anything but really fast/deepstrike stuff.

 

It depends on the map - I'd be more inclined to put them on a deep field objective if we have quarters deployment zone, and backfield if we have halves.

[Marshal Mittens]

Eliminators + Sneaky Librarian for snipers that can't be shot from more than 12 inches away. ~200pts to remove an enemy character a round is a pretty good deal. Especially when it will likely cause your enemy to go very much out of their way to kill them after you shoot a character or 2. Or use the Lasfusils to kills monsters and heavy infantry, while being unshootable. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

Why not just take scout snipers instead for a sniper unit? They're 75 for 5 and average 2.75 damage against the average meq target. Or 170 for the 3 eliminators and librarian and they average 3.25.

 

Maybe the las fusils squad is a bit more unique and can't be replicated.

[Tacitus]

6 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Why not just take scout snipers instead for a sniper unit? They're 75 for 5 and average 2.75 damage against the average meq target. Or 170 for the 3 eliminators and librarian and they average 3.25.

 

Maybe the las fusils squad is a bit more unique and can't be replicated.

Yeah, Eliminators suffer from the 3 and only 3 problem.   Most of the Primaris Units like that are in this middle ground hole.  They're not strong enough to make an impact, but if you take them they're not scary enough to be a priority target for your opponent so they COULD get away with stuff... its just an awkward slot.

[Karhedron]

13 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Maybe the las fusils squad is a bit more unique and can't be replicated.

 

I can see a role for Las Fusils to harass Whirlwinds and the like that will be trying to stay out of LOS of your bigger guns.

[Captain Idaho]

Sniper Scouts seem like the best objective camping unit Marines have. Cheap enough to not be missed and if you're over 12" away they can happily sit in the open and not suffer any attacks.

 

They're also not bad at shooting in a pinch too.

[Tacitus]

1 hour ago, Captain Idaho said:

Sniper Scouts seem like the best objective camping unit Marines have. Cheap enough to not be missed and if you're over 12" away they can happily sit in the open and not suffer any attacks.

 

They're also not bad at shooting in a pinch too.

They're probably the best one to actively sit on an objective, Intercessors sticky capping behind your "main force" are probably equivalently good in a different way -

 

you can also mimic the Sniper Scouts with Phobos units and a Libby- Eliminators and a Libby are only 5 Points more with fewer but bigger shots, and a Libby for Stationary Devastating Smite and 4 Force Weapon attacks making it less vulnerable to the Deep Striking melee which also might make the carbine on the Sgt a good buy - Nope, never mind, its only in your shooting phase, not after an Overwatch or something on a Deep Striker.  Too bad, that would have made it worthwhile.  You deep strike next to me, I shoot you with overwatch, then scamper 6 inches further away ruining your deep strike unless you can charge 19 inches.

 

I'm liking the Phobos Captain - Infiltrators - Comms Relay- Free CP gimmick to help a Camper earn its keep as a tie with Heavy Intercessors in second place. 

 

Assault Intercessors and Tactical Squads are a distant third or worse.  As a camper - better as other things.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Tacitus

[Kallas]

1 hour ago, Tacitus said:

you can also mimic the Sniper Scouts with Phobos units and a Libby- Eliminators and a Libby are only 5 Points more

Uh, 5 Scout Snipers are 75pts, the Phobos Librarian is 75pts plus 95pts for the 3 Eliminators. For 10 Snipers (150pts), yeah it's only 20pts more, but you're also looking at possibly two units of 5 instead, which covers more ground (and if we're talking objective campers, 2x5 is better unless you really want to max out on Scout Snipers), or significantly more shots which will generally translate to more reliable damage.

 

1 hour ago, Tacitus said:

Assault Intercessors and Tactical Squads are a distant third or worse.  As a camper - better as other things.

Yeah I think both of those units are wanting to be midfield or more. Tactical Squads are better in the midfield for sure, with the Fall Back + Shoot + Charge. Assault Intercessors are wanting to hunt units off objectives, so sitting backline would be kind of a waste of their entire kit; ok in the midfield, but likely wanting to move off after they've taken an objective to keep pressure on.

[Tacitus]

9 minutes ago, Kallas said:

Uh, 5 Scout Snipers are 75pts, the Phobos Librarian is 75pts plus 95pts for the 3 Eliminators. For 10 Snipers (150pts), yeah it's only 20pts more, but you're also looking at possibly two units of 5 instead, which covers more ground (and if we're talking objective campers, 2x5 is better unless you really want to max out on Scout Snipers), or significantly more shots which will generally translate to more reliable damage.

 

Yeah I think both of those units are wanting to be midfield or more. Tactical Squads are better in the midfield for sure, with the Fall Back + Shoot + Charge. Assault Intercessors are wanting to hunt units off objectives, so sitting backline would be kind of a waste of their entire kit; ok in the midfield, but likely wanting to move off after they've taken an objective to keep pressure on.

I've got Telion in the back of my mind so yeah I'm taking 10 Scount Snipers with a missile launcher.  And for 15 points you're trading some sniper shots for Nopn-Hazardous Devastating Smite and Libby melee.  That seems pretty fair for a back/far field objective camper you don't want Deepstruck.  Of course there's always the "both" option.   There's more than one objective to camp on. 

 

I think GW thought the Assault intercessors wanted to camp on an objective, but that means getting charged on the opponent's terms.  That means someone did the math and decided it worked in their favor.  Not good for a melee unit. 

[Orange Knight]

Sniper Scouts will win any comparison with similar units in the current rules due to their larger squad size and lone operative rule that isn't relying on another character. Not to mention their low cost.

 

I think GW has really under-costed this unit, and they will cause problems for people that aren't prepared. 

 

I would be running them in games if it wasn't for the models themselves. I don't want to buy or paint this unit, and converting one from Black Templar Neophytes will be expensive. Because I play in official GW venues on a semi-regular basis I can't go down the route of 3D printed conversion bits or stand-ins.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Orange Knight

[Karhedron]

My old metal sniper scouts will do just fine with a fresh lick of paint.

[Tacitus]

1 hour ago, Karhedron said:

My old metal sniper scouts will do just fine with a fresh lick of paint.

I don't need to, but I might re do the capes now that I've figured out the rock salt digital camo method. 

2 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

Sniper Scouts will win any comparison with similar units in the current rules due to their larger squad size and lone operative rule that isn't relying on another character. Not to mention their low cost.

 

I think GW has really under-costed this unit, and they will cause problems for people that aren't prepared. 

 

I think GW knows where they are with the sniper scouts.  I think that's the reason they can't take a Heavy Bolter for Telion to turn into a Heavy Bolter Sniper Rifle.  Which I would love if we could, and then somehow work Hathcock into the name as a shout out.