GW, YouTubers/Influencers, and Marketing Thoughts

[Halandaar]

50 minutes ago, Craig said:

I really like how GW seem to have embraced YouTube content creators as ambassadors for the brand. The amount of channels that have been given early access to the leviathan box has really surprised me. Even the relatively small channels have been included which is really good for them.

 

I think this one cuts both ways though - it's unbelievably frustrating when we see so many content creators, even minor ones, getting free copies of things that we as regular customers can't even pay money for if we want to. The Lion was a perfect example, social media flooded with preview copies generating hype for a product that people can't even buy. If the stock for Leviathan holds up then spreading preview boxes so far and wide will have been a good initiative. If it doesn't and we're scalped out of having access to it then it will become an insulting waste of products that could have gone to actual buyers.

[appiah4]

The sponsored videos for free products thing really undermine the credibility of Youtubers as well, at least that is how I feel. 

 

This last wave of overbearing marketing soured me quite a bit from a lot of channels.  Particularly the ones that were tripping over themselves to praise the product and urge me to buy it.  It was almost meme levels of "Don't Ask, Consume Now" in places - RLM Nerd Crew kind of content kept coming for two days straight.

 

GW has really become the Disney of wargaming..

Edited June 8, 2023 by appiah4

[Xenith]

1 hour ago, Halandaar said:

it's unbelievably frustrating when we see so many content creators, even minor ones, getting free copies of things that we as regular customers can't even pay money for if we want to

 

That is annoying, we did have in another topic somewhere though was that GW need to engage with the community more, and leverage the enthusiastic people...which is what they seem to be doing like never before.

 

Agree it will shoot them in the foot if people can't actually get a hold of the box, though. I heard a rumour that the logistics person in charge of this release staked their job on this going well 

[alfred_the_great]

28 minutes ago, Xenith said:

 

That is annoying, we did have in another topic somewhere though was that GW need to engage with the community more, and leverage the enthusiastic people...which is what they seem to be doing like never before.

 

Agree it will shoot them in the foot if people can't actually get a hold of the box, though. I heard a rumour that the logistics person in charge of this release staked their job on this going well 

and what, it’s 250 boxes? That’s less than some “FLGS” have been asking for per store. 
 

as ever, GW can’t do right for wrong. 

[appiah4]

2 hours ago, alfred_the_great said:

and what, it’s 250 boxes? That’s less than some “FLGS” have been asking for per store. 
 

as ever, GW can’t do right for wrong. 

 

To divorce GW from countless blunders with stocking new releases when judging backlash for sending free stock to influencers is disingenious.  GW are wrong when they are wrong.  If they had been making enough of their products for a year then nobody would have minded this.

[Xenith]

2 hours ago, alfred_the_great said:

and what, it’s 250 boxes? That’s less than some “FLGS” have been asking for per store. 
 

as ever, GW can’t do right for wrong. 

 

I think you misinterpreted my post - I think handing out the boxes to 'influencers' is a great thing, and a smart business move. Just that it might leave people with a bad taste, if the allocations do go wrong. Though my belief (hope?) is that they have been underproducing other stock to overproduce leviathan. 

 

 

=][= lets try to keep this positive =][=

[ZeroWolf]

I concur, i think the production of Leviathan is why there's been stock issues to the point I think we can go back and accurately guess when they started producing the boxset based on when they started having major issues.

 

Another factor to discuss is how organised scalping has become, GW stock issues isn't helped by an increase in people wanting something to flip for their own greed. 

[Halandaar]

3 hours ago, alfred_the_great said:

and what, it’s 250 boxes? That’s less than some “FLGS” have been asking for per store. 
 

as ever, GW can’t do right for wrong. 

 

Please note in my post I did say that it's only an issue IF people can't actually lay their hands on Leviathan. As @appiah4 rightly says, if the last year hadn't been riddled with multiple instances of people getting denied access to products they want by a grim combination of low availability and increasingly organised scalpers, this wouldn't be an issue in the first place.

 

I completely understand the principle of giving out free copies as a marketing expense and in a general sense I do think it's a good thing; the problem comes when the demand those free copies generate can't actually be met because there isn't stock to sell to willing buyers. This has been a very visible recurring problem for GW the last year, and while i'm inclined to agree with @Xenith and @ZeroWolf that shortages on other releases has been caused by GW focusing it's production capacity on Leviathan, it's difficult to have much confidence in that when the track record of the last year has been so poor.

 

 

 

[Brother Tyler]

The posts above were split from the "Good Job GW" topic, where they were decidedly off topic. Valid issues were brought up, however, so they were split into a separate discussion.

[Blurf]

On 6/8/2023 at 2:43 AM, appiah4 said:

The sponsored videos for free products thing really undermine the credibility of Youtubers as well, at least that is how I feel. 

 

This last wave of overbearing marketing soured me quite a bit from a lot of channels.  Particularly the ones that were tripping over themselves to praise the product and urge me to buy it.  It was almost meme levels of "Don't Ask, Consume Now" in places - RLM Nerd Crew kind of content kept coming for two days straight.

 

GW has really become the Disney of wargaming..

You're looking at the wrong end of it.

Most 40k related channels are already over the top enthusiastic and positive because that's what the CONSUMER wants. That's what gets, and keeps, eyeballs.

Also, at any given time, it's REALLY easy to be insulated from the problems of an edition. If your preview games were Admech vs. Deathguard, I bet you'd think things were great and be hyping up the edition. Wraithknights, who?

It's unlikely that a free box of models is a huge factor. What's 200$ of plastic they may never actually use to any of these channels?

[Felix Antipodes]

In my experience it’s the credibility of the site that keeps people coming back.  Give me someone who gives praise, or brickbats, when it’s due and doesn’t come over as “this is great because I want more free stuff”.

 

Having said that, most people who have gone to the trouble of setting up their own website, channel, podcast, etc, are going to be enthusiastic for the game and/or lore.  Maintaining the balance is the key.

[alfred_the_great]

Looks like giving away 250 boxes didn’t cause a global shortage.

[Kastor Krieg]

Another source of sour taste in this case is that the influencers are handed the boxes way ahead of time, so much so that they can build, masterclass paint and record and edit a video about them. This is months in advance and absolutely spoils the enjoyment of building and painting your own, because by the time you get your boxes the internet is already completely flooded with examples of non-fans, instead professionals, doing it months ago and better.

When I paint something as a hobbyist, not a commission painter, I want to share it with people. The last thing I want to see in reply is lack of engagement and the equivalent of "yawn, we've seen those for months, you're way behind".

[CL_Mission]

1 hour ago, Kastor Krieg said:

Another source of sour taste in this case is that the influencers are handed the boxes way ahead of time, so much so that they can build, masterclass paint and record and edit a video about them. This is months in advance and absolutely spoils the enjoyment of building and painting your own, because by the time you get your boxes the internet is already completely flooded with examples of non-fans, instead professionals, doing it months ago and better.

When I paint something as a hobbyist, not a commission painter, I want to share it with people. The last thing I want to see in reply is lack of engagement and the equivalent of "yawn, we've seen those for months, you're way behind".

For me it's the opposite effect. I can't speak for youtube as I don't consume 40k content there but I often browse the 'paintingwarhammer' hashtag on instagram because I like seeing other people's painted models and I draw a lot of inspiration from it. Seeing the Leviathan models on there has kept me excited for the box much more than any of the rules previews or such and some of the example there have got me really thinking about how I'll tackle the models once I get them.

Especially for the Tyranids, I previously didn't have a solid idea of what scheme I would go for but seeing what people have done with the Leviathan contents have given me some stong ideas.

[Doghouse]

I'm not a fan to be honest. Far too many have their livelihoods tied to GW products to get an honest opinion and most of the major ones are basically just cheap GW marketing now. Advance copies doesn't really bother me that much other than if it is something along the extremely limited. The advanced copies were originally to silence the leakers when it was at it's peak and now it's just like watching GW adverts.

 

A lot of them I feel are extremely cringe inducing these days, especially the Leviathan coverage. It had the complete opposite effect on me and the unboxing of the Kill Team sets just feel like a kick in the teeth most of the time.

 

There are some I still watch though but they tend to be those that cover terrain making or other game systems.

[Bradeh]

This is how every industry works, I don't even understand what people are trying to even argue. Golf reviewers and influencers receive Golf clubs early to review, Diablo 4 was allowed to played early by reviewers and prominent streamers. I can list every industry under the sun and they all operate the same way. This is how it works. 

Edited June 19, 2023 by Bradeh

[Evil Eye]

It'd be less of an issue to me if these review copies of stuff were genuine review copies, that is to say "we're sending you this so you can help us improve our product and help customers make informed decisions" rather than glorified hype-marketing tools.

 

Now granted these are usually models people are being sent, and those at least GW almost never makes objective catastrophic blunders with those. Still, it does make you wonder if with their ability to send all these review copies out to people, why they can't get more playtesters and community feedback with their rules before they release them officially.

[ZeroWolf]

30 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

It'd be less of an issue to me if these review copies of stuff were genuine review copies, that is to say "we're sending you this so you can help us improve our product and help customers make informed decisions" rather than glorified hype-marketing tools.

 

Now granted these are usually models people are being sent, and those at least GW almost never makes objective catastrophic blunders with those. Still, it does make you wonder if with their ability to send all these review copies out to people, why they can't get more playtesters and community feedback with their rules before they release them officially.

Easy, playtesters cost money and will potentially/almost certainly leak things.

 

Influencers cost nothing but a free product that you likely won't miss if they do their job properly. 

[Xenith]

2 hours ago, ZeroWolf said:

Influencers cost nothing but a free product that you likely won't miss if they do their job properly. 

 

Even at the £82.50 3rd party price point of the Leviathan boxed set, that would only pay for 5hours or less of a quality content creator's time. By sending out what is maybe £20 or less worth of materials to them, GW are getting a vast return on investment in terms of marketing. Some of these influencers are spaffing out loads of content on very little. 

 

While I'm not sold on the loads of things that seem to get sent out, I do like that they are being sent out, and that GW is interacting with the community.

 

I'd also rather they were sent out to loads of people, instead of the same 4-5 studios all the time. If GW is listening and want to send me a box, I'll happily rave about them 

Edited June 19, 2023 by Xenith

[Beaky Brigade]

It makes sense for GW to send out stuff to small fry creators too. They may have a small following but it's likely their regular audience will be very engaged with them, and once they have you hooked into their cult following anything they might say about GW products is a very powerful marketing tool. "I'm just a regular guy/girl like you from a place you're from, and here's what I have to say about this new GW product".

My employer sometimes advertises in a trade magazine where full page ads costs £1000s and they are always quite disappointed with the limited impact they have. For the cost price of a box set and postage GW can reach 1000s in their target audience, and the saturation means anyone perusing warhammer video and social media channels will be aware of the release they want to promote.

 

Small creators just need to take care they don't lose credibility by becoming over enthusiastic mouthpieces for GW.

[Kastor Krieg]

6 hours ago, Bradeh said:

This is how every industry works, I don't even understand what people are trying to even argue. Golf reviewers and influencers receive Golf clubs early to review, Diablo 4 was allowed to played early by reviewers and prominent streamers. I can list every industry under the sun and they all operate the same way. This is how it works. 

"This is how it works, what are you talking about, get used to it".

Fat naw, mate. Miss me with this conformism.

[Xenith]

No one's saying you have to like it, just that it's a fact of life. 

 

New books hit the shelves with quotes about that book on the cover. How else can they do that but send out (p)review copies. 

[Kastor Krieg]

1 hour ago, Xenith said:

No one's saying you have to like it, just that it's a fact of life. 

 

New books hit the shelves with quotes about that book on the cover. How else can they do that but send out (p)review copies. 

Above Frater literally expressed the sentiment that I shouldn't be voicing discontent "because that's how things are and always will be".

And I assure you, the book situation is neither how the quotes happen and is entirely a non-sequitur to the situation with the models. 

[Aarik]

How many free copies are really being given out though?  A couple hundred?  I totally get the sentiment of being frustrated at things not being in stock, but the review copies seem like they'd be a drop in the bucket.  And there are plenty of Leviathan boxes on Ebay in the US at least for slightly less than retail price.  It should be pretty easy to still get one if you haven't already.  As others have said, this sort of marketing is par for the course in almost every industry now.  The problem seems to be GW generally having insufficient production capacity to keep other kits in stock while also stockpiling Leviathan kits.

[Noserenda]

Ech, given how incredibly petty GW marketing is, preview copies are usually a mark of caution as it feels like looking at the product wrong gets you blacklisted some times. It is positive gw is doing more outreach to people, just a shame so few people go the extra mile on converting or messing with them, especially with the push fit kits seeing a dozen essentially identical versions does absolutely nothing for me.  

So overall a mehhhh, though the assertion that influencer copies are putting a dent in consumer copies is ridiculous.