GSC Units, Abilities & Combos in 10th ed

[Abominant]

Hello my fellow worshippers of the true emperor.

 

I just got back into 40k.

I have been scouring the interwebs for GSC shenanigans, tactical advice, and other useful info so that I don't waste my scratch on models that collect dust.

 

So far I believe that I will be taking 6 five-man squads of acolytes, and a nexos as my core.

 

I have been educated on the glory of St. Abominant and his nigh-unkillable unit of aberrants. I am also aware of the bikes with the double mortal wound bombing runs.

 

What other advice or sneaky tricks are you guys planning to foil the oppressors with, given our new 10th edition Cult index?

What strong synergies do you think are the Patriarch's tits?

 

Edited June 19, 2023 by Abominant

[Gongsun Zan]

Not strictly GSC, but I can see taking a few Basilisks - indirect fire seems great for clearing space for a 3" deep strike to snatch an objective, and the movement penalty helps to buy some space for Cult Ambush folks to come back. 

[TrawlingCleaner]

The double MW bombing runs I think have been clarified in the Rules Commentary PDF:

 

As the Bombing Runs are done in the movement phase, you wouldn't be able to shoot the Alphus and then move and bombing run as it's out of phase. Honestly, with Grenades too, I don't think this a bad thing at all. There was nothing stopping you taking 30 Jackals with 3 Alphus and doing about 15 MW a turn per squad which isn't fun

 

I'm really glad Abherrants have gotten their glow-up, we really needed an anvil unit, even with waves of Neophytes and blips

[Xenith]

8 hours ago, Abominant said:

6 five-man squads of acolytes

 

The only small units approach seems dangerous with characters, as they'll be killed then you just ahve a squishy character running around alone. Similarly, the unit might get wiped meaning you dont get to take advantage of summonthe cult. 

 

I was thinking maybe 20 neophytes with a nexos at the back to hold a rear objective, then another 20 in the middle with an iconward to spam the returning neophytes and protect any ambush markers that the opponent gets to. 

[brother_b]

I’ve got 30 neophytes done I feel I need at least another 30.

 

Acolytes I’m not sure I’ll add a character, maybe a large unit with the locus?

 

Im also trying to wrap my head around how to best deliver my Genestealers and patriarch.

I’ll have a truck and a couple rock grinders so also need to negotiate those and their potential passengers. Maybe a unit of neophytes in the truck for drive by shenanigans may be a route I go.

 

Im working on my 10 beast unit of abberants.

[Abominant]

16 hours ago, Xenith said:

 

The only small units approach seems dangerous with characters...

 

I agree. I just haven't decided how many neophyte units to take, and how I want to utilize them. The acolytes will not have attached characters. They are simply 6 cheap units that will allow me to saturate the board with ambush markers.

[Xenith]

Things is, to get ambush markers your units have to have died which means maybe you're not in a great position, even worse if there was a character with that unit. However having them die is the things that triggers getting another free unit, so it's a tricky one. Maybe a mix of big and small units will be best. Acolytes may be best as you are doing, small flamer/saw bombs/roadblocks. 

[Rogue]

Neophytes have the potential to cause our opponent some interesting problems. Let's say I have a unit of 20 sitting on an objective - including four specials, four heavies, and an icon. The combination of icon and objective means that I'm regaining 4-6 neophytes each turn (and maybe a CP too). For the sake of argument, let's also assume that I have some kind of combat unit in the area, so my opponent doesn't really want to push up and fight the neophytes directly.

 

If he leaves them alone, great. I can keep shooting away, scoring points and worrying about other areas of the battle. If he wipes them out, less good, but okay - I get them all back next turn. And sure, he can target them down again - but repeatedly shooting the same unit of twenty neophytes might not be the best use of his resources.

 

And if he damages the unit but doesn't kill it, that's okay too. Even if I'm reduced to just the icon bearer, I'm definitely getting all four heavy weapons back at least, so I can continue firing my most useful guns turn after turn until my opponent kills them all, at which point I miss a turn and then get the whole lot back anyway.  

[Rogue]

On 6/19/2023 at 12:46 PM, Xenith said:

 

The only small units approach seems dangerous with characters, as they'll be killed then you just ahve a squishy character running around alone. Similarly, the unit might get wiped meaning you dont get to take advantage of summonthe cult. 

 

I was thinking maybe 20 neophytes with a nexos at the back to hold a rear objective, then another 20 in the middle with an iconward to spam the returning neophytes and protect any ambush markers that the opponent gets to. 

 

Small units of acolytes might benefit from the timings of Cult Ambush. In one sense, an ideal result for us is to charge into combat, do damage, and then get wiped out in return. Because if we die in our fight phase, we return almost immediately in our opponent's movement phase. It may not be realistic, but imagine throwing six small units of acolytes into the enemy lines, killing a few key things, seeing all six units wiped in return, and then just putting all six back down for another go next turn. Yeah, we lost 30 acolytes, but we got 30 back; the enemy models, on the other hand, stay dead. And we got to reposition ourselves somewhere useful.

 

I'm definitely being idealistic here, but I think there are elements here that might work.

[Abominant]

22 hours ago, Rogue said:

...Yeah, we lost 30 acolytes, but we got 30 back; the enemy models, on the other hand, stay dead. And we got to reposition ourselves somewhere useful.

 

This is exactly along the lines of what I was thinking. Each squad is what- 75 points- for a unit with 3 free hand flamers, and 2 acolytes with either free mining tools or demo charges?

 

These squads are all meant to do what they can until they die, and leave lots of ambush markers when they die, so that more-powerful ambushing units are spoiled for options. They are kamikaze suicide squads meant to make it hard on the opponent to stamp out every token.

 

And with how cheap our stuff is right now, 6 units of recycling squads are less than 1/4 of a strike force.

 

I also love the Clamavus, Iconward, and Nexos. These leaders combined with the acolytes provide some serious board control ability.

EDIT: I meant when their rules are used synergistically with each other. These leaders won't be leading any acolyte squads.

Edited June 21, 2023 by Abominant

[Xenith]

On 6/20/2023 at 10:06 PM, Rogue said:

Yeah, we lost 30 acolytes, but we got 30 back; the enemy models, on the other hand, stay dead.

 

Yea, great point! 

[Abominant]

I want to say IF our acolytes get to use their demo charges again after Cult Ambush reswpawn, then these Ambush marker reinforcement squads would be much more viable.

[Zoatibix]

Respawned squads are going to be very gratifying against folks who try to take out glass cannon units by playing fight on death strat on them. I think Marines get that now. 

[brother_b]

Sacrifice the small acolyte groups to set up multiple avenues of attack.

 

Small units of acolytes will die to a stiff breeze but will allow us to place an ambush marker. I propose sacrificial groups of acolytes to set up ambush markers to lure or tempt our opponent, to set up multiple avenues of attack, and to confuse our enemy.

 

Well use the markers as jump off points for those units we really care about.

 

Example: We lose three acolyte squads, one big pumped up neophyte squad with multiple special/heavy weapons, and we lucked out and rolled 4+ for a big unit of aberrants.
 

We have 5 ambush markers.
 

I do not care about the acolyte squads, I want to recycle my neophytes, and I absolutely am excited about my aberrants.

 

So how do we use those 5 ambush markers?

 

I only care about neophytes and aberrants. I might place a couple of ambush markers within 12” to 15” of my opponents units, baiting them to that direction. I may place some in the corners of my opponents deployment zone. Obviously I’ll have one or two in my deployment zone to ensure I can bring something back.

 

Now we’ve set up many options for our opponent to address. Does he pull back units to cover or remove the close ambush markers? Does he worry about his back line? Does he commit some reserves that way? How worried is he about those aberrants? Which does he ignore? He has to ignore something.

 

Now we take advantage of what our opponent has left us, and we deploy our important units. We don’t care about the noble sacrifice our acolytes gave us to provide those ambush markers.

 

This is what excites me about the GSC.

[Zoatibix]

That's a very neat idea, @brother_b

[Abominant]

The Goliath Rockgrinders could hit pretty hard on the charge with the Tank Shock stratagem. You gotta take a squad in them because TRANSPORTs get immediately destroyed if you don't start the game without passengers loaded up. I'm just estimating something cheap like 5 acolytes with demo charges and flamers.
For 230 points and 1 CP, your one vehicle can Tanks Shock for an average of 4 mortals, Grinding Clearance for 3 mortals, and then hit with the Drilldozer Blades for around 3 hits at 2 damage each going through T4 and marine saves of Sv3+. Something like 6 dead marines, not counting any vehicle weapons, 3 flamers, and all the demo charges from both the vehicle and the squad inside, hitting them before the Rockgrinder charges. right?

Fun, yes. But is it a thing worth points?

Edited June 23, 2023 by Abominant

[Zoatibix]

It would definately be worth it against things that are nasty on overwatch.

 

And it removes the chance of the enemy using the fight on death strat.

 

Did I mention just how much I hate that strat?

 

Bloody strat! /shakes fist.

[Abominant]

33 minutes ago, brother_b said:

Sacrifice the small acolyte groups to set up multiple avenues of attack.

 

Small units of acolytes will die to a stiff breeze but will allow us to place an ambush marker. I propose sacrificial groups of acolytes to set up ambush markers to lure or tempt our opponent, to set up multiple avenues of attack, and to confuse our enemy.

 

Well use the markers as jump off points for those units we really care about.

 

Example: We lose three acolyte squads, one big pumped up neophyte squad with multiple special/heavy weapons, and we lucked out and rolled 4+ for a big unit of aberrants.
 

We have 5 ambush markers.
 

I do not care about the acolyte squads, I want to recycle my neophytes, and I absolutely am excited about my aberrants.

 

So how do we use those 5 ambush markers?

 

I only care about neophytes and aberrants. I might place a couple of ambush markers within 12” to 15” of my opponents units, baiting them to that direction. I may place some in the corners of my opponents deployment zone. Obviously I’ll have one or two in my deployment zone to ensure I can bring something back.

 

Now we’ve set up many options for our opponent to address. Does he pull back units to cover or remove the close ambush markers? Does he worry about his back line? Does he commit some reserves that way? How worried is he about those aberrants? Which does he ignore? He has to ignore something.

 

Now we take advantage of what our opponent has left us, and we deploy our important units. We don’t care about the noble sacrifice our acolytes gave us to provide those ambush markers.

 

This is what excites me about the GSC.

My thinking exactly. Acolyte squads are versatile, but with a bunch of tiny ones, you can just recycle them, or better units in their place.
After review, I am taking a Nexos and a Primus definitely.
The Primus for his Decoys & Misdirection ability.
Also, who the heck DOESN'T take a 50 point unit that lets you use a free stratagem every turn (2 per battle round), and move your ambush markers around every command phase (twice per battle round as well). Nexos and lots of battle line units are the auto-includes for me.

[Abominant]

So I looked at some peoples' lists who've done well in tournaments with GSC.

I noticed a pattern of the same combo used in a lot of successful lists, and I think I've got it down.

 

It seems like you can use a Nexos' Battlefield Analysis ability on his unit even if his unit is in Strategic Reserves (Rules Commentary, pg. 11, last sentence under Reserves Units).
So GSC can use Tunnel Crawlers twice in the same Movement Phase- first, on a 10-man Acolyte Hybrid unit with 4 demo charges; and then immediately again, using the Nexos' free stratagem ability to target his own unit (10 more Acolyte Hybrids with 4 more demo charges).

Thanks to this wombo combo, 2 Acolyte Hybrid units with 4 demo charges each can deepstrike beginning in Turn 2, both 3" away from an enemy unit (and within the 6" demo charge range).

With 8 demo charges thrown, that ends up being (not counting hand flamers), 8d6+24 attacks, 5+ to hit, S12, AP -2, Dam 2.

Without buffs, 2 units of Acolyte Hybrids (with their demo charges alone) can do a minimum average of around 9 wounds that each become 2 damage to standard Marine targets with no buffs. These attacks would automatically reroll at least 1's to hit, and would ignore cover with sustained hits 1. This is with no buffs applied on purpose.

 

With GSC's maximum effort (stratagems/buffs/debuffs/special abilities), these units could do a maximum of around 28 wounds (56 damage) to marine targets, and around 12 wounds (24 damage) to T14 targets with a 2+ save.

 

The cost of both units, plus 1 Nexos, is 350 points.

That's a very spicy dish for a supervisor and a few miners using stuff from work.

Edited July 10, 2023 by Abominant
Grammatic clarifications/edits

[TrawlingCleaner]

The nice thing about them being hybrids is that they can probably do that next turn after being obliterated by the enemy

The only counter to this plan is probably going to be Overwatch and deepstrike deniers like SM Infiltrators, otherwise very solid!

[TrawlingCleaner]

On 6/19/2023 at 11:32 AM, TrawlingCleaner said:

The double MW bombing runs I think have been clarified in the Rules Commentary PDF:

 

As the Bombing Runs are done in the movement phase, you wouldn't be able to shoot the Alphus and then move and bombing run as it's out of phase. Honestly, with Grenades too, I don't think this a bad thing at all. There was nothing stopping you taking 30 Jackals with 3 Alphus and doing about 15 MW a turn per squad which isn't fun

 

Turns out I was wrong about this, the Demolition Run ability isn't phase locked, just after making a normal move:

So Jackals can definitely Demolition Run multiple times a turn

 

It's important to note that they can't Overwatch, then move from an Alphus and Demo as the Alphus' ability IS phase locked:

[Rogue]

That's how I read it too. Jackals with an Alphus can move and Demo Run, then move again after shooting but not Demo Run (because that move is phase locked), then (if the Alphus has Prowling Agitant) potentially move once in the enemy turn and Demo Run again.

[Abominant]

I think that there is confusion surrounding the wording of several interacting rules, making them very clunky and not specific.

I hope that I am wrong here, because I'd play Jackals more if I am.

 

As I interpret the RAW, the OUT-OF-PHASE section of the Rules Commentary doesn't say that a rule must specifically state that it is being used out of phase in order for it to qualify as OOP. Just because the Prowling Agitants rule doesn't specifically state that it is being used "as if it were your X phase", doesn't mean that the OOP rules clarification doesn't apply to it.

Agitants allows your unit to make a Normal move- a move that (without a special rule like Prowling Agitants), is otherwise only ever allowed in your movement phase; not your shooting phase or your opponent's movement phase- only your own movement phase.

This, by definition, means that your unit is being allowed to "...move, shoot, charge or fight..." as if it were your movement phase. It is implied, not directly stated.

That is where the conversation about all of this becomes murky.

You can try and convince your opponent if they do not agree, but I'm pretty sure that you can't trigger any additional rules when your Jackals make Normal moves outside of your movement phase.

 

Until GW clarifies this, I am personally not going to assume in favor of multiple Demolition Runs; just in case I am correct. I hate the possibility of using an unintentional advantage in a game mode that is supposed to try and support a balanced competition; for me, it calls any subsequent victory on my behalf into question.

But if it doesn't cause problems or arguments with your opponent, then more power to you; as long as you are having fun.

In the meantime, I have e-mailed GW about this too. If their intentions are what I've gathered with the Out Of Phase restrictions, then I hope they word it better in a future update.

[Rogue]

I think that's a sound approach - if you're unsure, go with the rules interpretation that disadvantages you rather than your opponent.

 

That said, I'm not sure I agree with your particular interpretation here. 

 

The commentary says: "When using out-of-phase rules to perform an action as if it were one of your phases, you cannot use any other rules that are normally triggered in that phase." (Underlining mine)

 

This is quite specific language, and reappears on the Jackal Alphus' datasheet: In your shooting phase... this unit can make a Normal move of up to 6" as if it were your movement phase. 

 

Compare that to the Atalan Jackal datasheet: Each time this unit ends a Normal move... 

The "as if it were" phrasing doesn't occur here. The same is true of the Prowling Agitant rule, which simply refers to making a Normal move, with no mention of "as if it were".

 

So when the Jackal unit (with attached Alphus) makes a Normal move in our movement phase, they trigger mortal wounds; when they make a Normal move in our shooting phase, they don't trigger mortals - this Normal move is specifically out-of-phase, so any additional effects (like mortals) don't go off. Finally, our Jackals make a Normal move in the opponent's turn - this does trigger mortal wounds (I think), because it fulfils all the requirements: the unit has ended a Normal move, and there's no reference to "as if it were", so the conditions of the commentary aren't met.

 

In short, I think you can trigger mortal wounds twice in a battle round - once in our movement phase, once in the opponent's turn. (In fact, it could even be three times per battle round, if the opponent had a way to make a Normal, Advance or Fall Back move in our turn, as the restriction is once per turn, not once per round.) But you can't do it via the Alphus' shoot and move rule.

 

There's definitely some ambiguity here, and if you choose to play it differently (as outlined by Abominant above), then fair enough.

[Rogue]

An application of the icon that I've recently realised: 

 

If we get overwatched in our movement phase, including when we drop in from reserves, we can still utilise the icon to restore casualties. The icon kicks in during the reinforcements step (and as the active player, we choose exactly when within that step) - so we arrive, get overwatched, lose some models, trigger the icon and get d3, or 3, or even d3+3 back straight away. 

 

Not massive, but a nice bonus.