How Many Grey Hunters is Ragnar Blackmane supposed to have in his company???

[spjaco]

I seem to recall, but can't for the life of me remember where; that Ragnar Blackmane's Great Company is supposed to have an unusually large number of Grey Hunter packs.  If I remember my fluff it says that it is rather ironic that this is the case as Ragnar was NEVER a Grey Hunter!  My old brain has somehow fixed this number at 10 packs of Grey Hunters but I am curious if this is even partially close to correct or if I am wrong where I can locate the correct information.

 

Thanks all.

[Bouargh]

10 pack of 10 Grey Hunters was the standard size under Space Marine - Epic game.

Yet I think I remember a quote saying that Ragnar´s great company could be more or less the quivalent of 2 Codex Battle Companies - which would lead us to an equivalent of 12 packs of 10 GH... But when and where did I read that... mystery

[Valerian]

This is pre-Indomitus Crusade, so a few hundred years out of date at this point (and no Primaris).  At the time, Ragnar had the 2nd largest Great Company - only Logan Grimnar's was larger.

 

[Karhedron]

OK, so even Ragnar's GC is under 200 strong. That means the Wolves overall are only about twice as large a Codex Chapter. Funny, I had thought that they would be larger. Not still Legion-sized but definitely much bigger than anyone else, even Black Templars.

[Lionsbane]

That though is clearly not even full strength for his Co. Many of those squads are under strength, three lone-wolves only five wolf guard.... Seems like it had probably seen tough times before that accounting. 

[Valerian]

Those under strength packs are simply showing how the Space Wolves’ packs operate.  They never fill in for losses, so only brand newly formed Blood Claws packs would ever really be at full strength.  Hundreds of years later those Blood Claws would now be with their same original pack mates in a much smaller Long Fangs pack, with the only ones missing being the dead, and those selected for the Wolf Guard. 

[Bryan Blaire]

56 minutes ago, Valerian said:

Those under strength packs are simply showing how the Space Wolves’ packs operate.  They never fill in for losses, so only brand newly formed Blood Claws packs would ever really be at full strength.  Hundreds of years later those Blood Claws would now be with their same original pack mates in a much smaller Long Fangs pack, with the only ones missing being the dead, and those selected for the Wolf Guard. 

I guess it remains to be seen if GW continues to follow that bit of lore post-Leviathan, given that the current army building rules actually don’t allow it.

 

I only see a few options to resolve that beyond doing away with the lore.

[Valerian]

50 minutes ago, Bryan Blaire said:

I guess it remains to be seen if GW continues to follow that bit of lore post-Leviathan, given that the current army building rules actually don’t allow it.

 

I only see a few options to resolve that beyond doing away with the lore.

The rules allow it.  You have to pay for 10 Grey Hunters, but there is no requirement to bring 10 Grey Hunters 

[Wolf Guard Dan]

OP I think you may be misremembering. Ragnar’s great company had an unusual amount of blood claws. It was stated that he was a popular wolf lord thst all the young recruits wanted to join. I forget which codex that was. Maybe 3rd. Which is definitely out of date info. That was interesting to me because I didn’t think blood claws would get to pick their great company. 

 

Possible spoilers: There was a newer book, I forget which, that discussed Ragnar’s company status during the fighting of the 13th black crusade. Due attrition and fog of war Ragnar only could account for 60ish members of his great company. Ragnar thought more would turn up. Which that too is out of date info. Who knows where it’s at now after the primaris marines were sent. 

My wife is visiting the in laws with the children. First night of uninterrupted sleep in 8 months. Give me another night and I may remember the sources. But I’ll only be an oracle for a few more days until I meet up with them and lose sleep once again.  

 

[Valerian]

Dan is correct, all of the old lore had Ragnar with far more Blood Claws than usual, and that is shown in the pics of his Great Company, above.  
 

Now, however, who knows.  They haven’t given current info and a lot has happened in the last few hundred years.

 

Ragnar isn’t exactly “The Young King” anymore. 

[spjaco]

Thanks all.  That really helps me out.  One more question.  9th Edition Codex did not have a datasheet for Wolf Scouts but it does mention them.  Are they still considered active?

 

Thanks again.

[spjaco]

7 hours ago, Bouargh said:

10 pack of 10 Grey Hunters was the standard size under Space Marine - Epic game.

Yet I think I remember a quote saying that Ragnar´s great company could be more or less the quivalent of 2 Codex Battle Companies - which would lead us to an equivalent of 12 packs of 10 GH... But when and where did I read that... mystery

I remember the 10 packs of Grey Hunters.  Don't seem to recall twelve though.....

Interesting.  Certainly gives me some room for thought there though.

[Valerian]

29 minutes ago, spjaco said:

Thanks all.  That really helps me out.  One more question.  9th Edition Codex did not have a datasheet for Wolf Scouts but it does mention them.  Are they still considered active?

 

Thanks again.

 

Yes, Wolf Scouts have their own datasheet entry in the Index.  Unfortunately, there is yet another mistake there and they were only given 1 Wound, despite every other Marine in the galaxy have at least 2.  

[spjaco]

16 minutes ago, Valerian said:

 

Yes, Wolf Scouts have their own datasheet entry in the Index.  Unfortunately, there is yet another mistake there and they were only given 1 Wound, despite every other Marine in the galaxy have at least 2.  

Yeah, thats gotta be in error....  If anything since they are actually fully vet'd Space Marines they should have as many as the standard Marines.  Not the up and comers.

[Bryan Blaire]

5 hours ago, Valerian said:

The rules allow it.  You have to pay for 10 Grey Hunters, but there is no requirement to bring 10 Grey Hunters 

You actually showed how the rules don’t allow you to just buy 6, 7, 8, or 9 Grey Hunters, only that you can choose to eliminate part of your force before a battle…

 

That was one of the crap ways/options I was thinking that you could make it work, yeah. By the time you are done, you’re going to end up paying for like a 10-25% of an army you don’t put on the table, depending on what you want to represent, which is pretty sad “fluff” player treatment by the company.

Edited June 19, 2023 by Bryan Blaire

[Valerian]

22 minutes ago, Bryan Blaire said:

By the time you are done, you’re going to end up paying for like a 25% of an army you don’t put on the table.

 

That's hyperbole.  Very rarely are you ever going to make the choice to not take the full amount of models that you've paid for.  The only time it is really going to ever come into actual play is for the rare transport that doesn't have the capacity for you to take a full unit and the Character(s) that you want to attach.  And the Drop Pod is pretty much the only example of this, as its transport capacity is 10, so you're going to waste a whole 14 points dropping a Blood Claw to make room for Ragnar, or 18 points to drop a Grey Hunter to make room for Haldor Icepelt, or whatever.  It isn't a big deal.

 

Meanwhile, most of the other transports don't have this issue.  Stormravens can carry 12, Rhinos can carry 12, Repulsors can carry 12, Land Raiders can carry 12, Impulsors can carry 6, Razorbacks can carry 6, Repulsor Executioner can carry 6, Land Speeder Storms can carry 6, Storm Fangs can carry 6.

 

All of these transports are designed to carry either a full Squad plus 2 characters or a half-squad plus 1 character.  

 

 

[spjaco]

On 6/19/2023 at 4:54 PM, Valerian said:

 

That's hyperbole.  Very rarely are you ever going to make the choice to not take the full amount of models that you've paid for.  The only time it is really going to ever come into actual play is for the rare transport that doesn't have the capacity for you to take a full unit and the Character(s) that you want to attach.  And the Drop Pod is pretty much the only example of this, as its transport capacity is 10, so you're going to waste a whole 14 points dropping a Blood Claw to make room for Ragnar, or 18 points to drop a Grey Hunter to make room for Haldor Icepelt, or whatever.  It isn't a big deal.

 

Meanwhile, most of the other transports don't have this issue.  Stormravens can carry 12, Rhinos can carry 12, Repulsors can carry 12, Land Raiders can carry 12, Impulsors can carry 6, Razorbacks can carry 6, Repulsor Executioner can carry 6, Land Speeder Storms can carry 6, Storm Fangs can carry 6.

 

All of these transports are designed to carry either a full Squad plus 2 characters or a half-squad plus 1 character.  

 

 

Hold on, I thought Rhinos could only carry 10, great for Grey Hunters.  I myself love to bring a razorback with twin las' to back up my Long Fangs (space for up to six), Land Raiders is usually 10 or 12, 12 for Redeemers and 15 for Crusaders.  I like to pack Blood Claws into a Crusader and go that route.  Or rather I usta back in 5th edition.  We will see what happens with the new rules set.

[Valerian]

4 hours ago, spjaco said:

Hold on, I thought Rhinos could only carry 10, great for Grey Hunters.  I myself love to bring a razorback with twin las' to back up my Long Fangs (space for up to six), Land Raiders is usually 10 or 12, 12 for Redeemers and 15 for Crusaders.  I like to pack Blood Claws into a Crusader and go that route.  Or rather I usta back in 5th edition.  We will see what happens with the new rules set.

Check the new datasheets in the Space Marine Index.