What Astartes units have Pleasantly Surprised you (?)

[L30n1d4s]

As fellow Astartes players here gets their feet under them with the new rules/points and start getting actual games under your belt, what units are turning out to be better than you expected them to be (either because they were bad in 9th or you just didn't see them in a certain light when you first read their data slate)?

 

 

For me, one of the units that has impressed me out the gate is 6 x Devastator Centurions with Grav Cannons and Centurion Missile Launchers... specially, not just any Centurion Devastators, but Deathwatch Centurion Devastators... let me explain:

 

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They are not cheap, costing 410 points (so about 20% of a 2000 point list), but they innately start out with high durability (T7 4W 2+ save), which they can buff even further with Cover and "Armour of Contempt" Strat (so, giving them the equivalent of the old 0+ save). They also have innate re-rolls of 1s to hit (which is very rare these days, especially without character support), which goes up to full re-rolls to hit against targets on Objectives (again, this is free/baked into their special rule, no CP required).

 

Where they really shine in my tests so far, is their ability to use Deathwatch rules/other unit support to take down even the toughest targets.

 

Against vehicles, their Grav Cannons have 24" 3A BS3+ S6 AP-1 Dmg3 (Anti-vehicle 2+)... while this is good on its own, when I combine it with +1 to hit from friendly Incursors "marking" the target, Sustained Hits from the Deathwatch Mission Tactics, inherent re-rolls from their special rule, and the DW "Kraken Rounds" Strat (giving them 30" range and AP-2 on their Grav Cannons) they can easily "one shot" the toughest vehicles in the game, including Knights, Baneblades, Land Raiders, etc.

 

What makes them even more versatile is that, as Deathwatch, I can use the "Hellfire Rounds" Strat on them instead, making their Gav Cannons/Centurions Missile Launchers wound all Infantry on 2+/Monsters on 5+s. This can be devastating against large infantry units, especially with Sustained Hits and the Blast rule on their Missile Launchers, and also can even make them super deadly against Monsters when you add in Oath of Moment for full re-rolls to Wound (functionally, this means they wound all Monsters 50% of the time, with their AP-1 Dmg3 Grav Cannons... for every failed Armour save, that monster is losing 3 wounds!). In testing, with all the buffs layered onto the Centurions, I have been able to kill Mortarion in a single round of shooting, which is no easy feat!

 

Finally, the last thing about Deathwatch that makes them so good is that they can use the "Teleportarium" Strat to move anywhere on the board each turn, mitigating their bad mobility (only 4" Move) and allowing them to get the LOS they need every Shooting Phase.

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Anyway, enough about my combos.... what have the other Brethren here found out to be something they were pleasantly surprised with in the new Astartes Indexes?

Edited June 19, 2023 by L30n1d4s

[CCE1981]

I think that Eradicators are far better than they were in 9th.  You can reliably split their fire now, and fire at the non-OOM target with full re-roll hits, wounds, and damage.  They only need the Apothecary Biologis, but adding a Gravis Captain also gives them credible melee.  

 

[xxxjtmxxx]

the combo with the centurions is insane. Will try it for myself.

 

which other good anti infantry shooting source we have to give a captain the double strat?  

[Captain Idaho]

The old big 3 units for Marines; Tactical, Assault and Devastator squads, all look solid and dare I say it... powerful.

 

Devastator squads, 120pts for 5 with Lascannons will be solid and you can take 2 or 3 and have plenty of support anti-tank batteries for objective camping too.

 

Tactical Marines are decent. Hold their own in the middle and plenty of weapons to hurt opponents with their shooting. They're a contributing unit to the game rather than a power house, but what they do is provide those crucial extra weapons whilst you hold objectives and use bolters on opponents. They also have 2 attacks each!

 

Assault Marines are really, really solid. Attach a Chaplain with Jump Pack and you got a unit capable of putting some Mortal Wounds out and also that lovely +1 to wound. Very solid. Unfortunately for Vanguard, they're even better than them!

 

Special mention to Scout Snipers. Cannot be targeted by enemy fire at range over 12". Precision weapons are very important this edition and they can happily sit in the open on an objective and never be kicked off unit the opponent gets closer to you army.

 

What else... oh Predators. Both types. Amazing support now.

 

Things like Whirlwinds and Vindicators are amazing but the really star for me is the Land Speeder Tornado. Give it an Assault Cannon and fly over a unit to attack with 6 Mortal Wounds attempts... then fire the Assault Cannon (and heavy bolter) into the same unit for more damage.

[L30n1d4s]

You can see I am on a Deathwatch kick here.... another good one is a Deathwatch Infernus Squad with Primaris Captain attatched... they can either use Hellfire Rounds to wound Infantry on 2+s or Kraken Rounds to gain AP-1 and 18" range on their Flamers... they can also use the Teleportarium Strat to "bounce" around and Flame new units. They also are pretty deadly on Overwatch, can get even more AP if there target is "tagged" by a Stormspeeder Hailstrike, and their Captain gives them a free Strat each turn (plus, with Thief of Secrets and +3A once per game, he can really punish a charging unit in melee).

[xxxjtmxxx]

good idea. mass cleaning with flamers and anti tank with centurions. nice

[SkimaskMohawk]

On 6/19/2023 at 1:08 PM, L30n1d4s said:

In testing, with all the buffs layered onto the Centurions, I have been able to kill Mortarion in a single round of shooting, which is no easy feat!

 

On average this doesn't happen unless I'm missing some buffs.

 

The grav gets 7.4 damage through and the missiles get 4.1; that's without cover, which almost always applies to larger models these days. The 2+/4++/5+FNP is a pretty significant defensive wall. Not that he won't still die in that turn if you've put oaths on him, but you need a bit of a high roll and to catch him out of cover for that centurion bomb to work. And you also burnt all your cp for an offensive play that kinda failed, so idk. Just watch out.

[Karhedron]

After an edition of being terrible, the Lancer now looks quite respectable for anti-tank. 145 points for a couple of shots that will even wound a Land Raider on a 3+. It also brings its own rerolls to Hit, Wound and Damage which are independent of OOM making it pretty reliable, especially in a target-rich environment.

[Karhedron]

Incursors and Thunderstrike seem like sleeper hits to me as people have not really noticed their +1 to Hit and Wound that they can apply to the rest of your army.

 

Incursors are a cheap way to get +1 to hit on a important target. At only 90 points with Scout, they can make a nuisance of themselves and their Haywire mine is handy for an unexpected smattering of Mortal Wounds.

 

The Thunderstrike is a bigger hitter though. +1 to Wound is a big deal if you are relying on weapons like Desolators or massed melta for your anti-work work as this will give both sets of weapons a 50% increase in damage output against heavier tanks and it also stacks with OOM. It is quite pricey at 160 points but it packs a decent arsenal of its own.

[Tacitus]

I think there are so many one-two unit Combos out there that just about everything that isn't a loser can now be a winner.   The only losers are pretty much the few units that lost their niche or had it reduced to some shadow of itself that's already saturated by other choices. 

 

Infiltrators being more expensive than Incursors for example.  People have picked up on the Incursor benefit, but the niche of infiltrating troopsy type units now becomes saturated with Incursors, Sniper Scouts, and so on, the most expensive choice is going to be the first one cut here. 

[Orange Knight]

I tried them in one game - The Hellblasters are really fun to use now.

 

There is no feel bad element with them getting killed or blowing up, and the Apothecary and a Lieutenant make a very fun addition to the unit.

[Karhedron]

29 minutes ago, Tacitus said:

Infiltrators being more expensive than Incursors for example.  People have picked up on the Incursor benefit, but the niche of infiltrating troopsy type units now becomes saturated with Incursors, Sniper Scouts, and so on, the most expensive choice is going to be the first one cut here. 

 

Infiltrators still have full-fat Infiltrate rules rather than just Scout which makes them more flexible. Also their Omni-scramblers are particularly good DS denial. Combined with a 6++, I think there is a still a role for them. They are more defensive while Incursors are more offensive.

[Lemondish]

5 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

I tried them in one game - The Hellblasters are really fun to use now.

 

There is no feel bad element with them getting killed or blowing up, and the Apothecary and a Lieutenant make a very fun addition to the unit.

 

My favourite use for them right now is that exact unit, 10 with a Lt and Apothecary, in a Repulsor to push a particularly tough flank and hold something aggressively. Against a melee army the ability to just leave by piling back into the Repulsor is such a fun tool.

 

No idea how efficient it is on points, though.

[Tacitus]

19 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

Infiltrators still have full-fat Infiltrate rules rather than just Scout which makes them more flexible. Also their Omni-scramblers are particularly good DS denial. Combined with a 6++, I think there is a still a role for them. They are more defensive while Incursors are more offensive.

Infiltrators, Incursors, and Scout Snipers: Pick Two is still usually going to leave Infiltrators out in the cold. 

[Orange Knight]

I think a lot of units are reliant on characters to unlock their full potential. This can be a bit of a trap as it's easy to fall into a situation where characters are taking up a large portion of your list, and you begin to sacrifice critical mass for the army at a certain point level.

 

I appreciate the Eradicators for this reason - they don't need characters support and can operate independently. The unit gets to re-roll hits, wounds and the damage against it's ideal target. I used a full squad of 6, and you get pretty reliable damage - but you need to run 6 as a smaller squad of 3 simply lacks the number of shots needed to get a good average.

[Ammonius]

5 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

I think a lot of units are reliant on characters to unlock their full potential. This can be a bit of a trap as it's easy to fall into a situation where characters are taking up a large portion of your list, and you begin to sacrifice critical mass for the army at a certain point level.

 

I appreciate the Eradicators for this reason - they don't need characters support and can operate independently. The unit gets to re-roll hits, wounds and the damage against it's ideal target. I used a full squad of 6, and you get pretty reliable damage - but you need to run 6 as a smaller squad of 3 simply lacks the number of shots needed to get a good average.

Does a team of 6 Eradicators in a Land Raider for mobility sound like a good idea?

[Lemondish]

23 minutes ago, Ammonius said:

Does a team of 6 Eradicators in a Land Raider for mobility sound like a good idea?

 

It sounds expensive and you're wasting one of the best parts of Land Raiders - delivering melee units directly into a charge.

 

But it certainly looks cool. A Repulsor could do a similar job for a bit cheaper and give you an opportunity to just leave if you're charged.

[Orange Knight]

1 hour ago, Ammonius said:

Does a team of 6 Eradicators in a Land Raider for mobility sound like a good idea?

 

It works, but a Repulsor would function the same for them and is much cheaper.

 

The Landraider is great but it's true value lies in delivering units that want to Assault after the transport has moved. The Eradicators are happy to disembark and shoot.

 

The Repulsor is cheap enough that it isn't a bad idea to invest in one alongside a Landraider at this point. It costs less than a Dreadnought!

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Honestly the MWs on the assault squad was a big surprise for me.