10th - Starting new.

[Scribe]

Alright. I've read the rules, I've read the Index. I've read the points. I've made a whole bunch of lists, and through a process of the tried and true "Just pick the models you like, and go from there." method, this is what I'm settling in on.

 

List
 

Spoiler

Khorne Daemon Prince - 180

 

1 Sorcerer (Tzeentch) - 60
Eye of Tzeentch - 30

 

1 Dark Apostle (Undivided) - 85
Liber Hereticus - 40
 

10 CSM (Tzeentch)

10 CSM (Nurgle) - 200

20 Cultists (Undivided) - 110

10 Beastmen (Khorne) - 95

 

1 Helbrute (Nurgle) - 155

1 Helbrute (Tzeentch) - 155

 

10 Possessed (Slaanesh)

 

Knight Desecrator - 390

 

Now, most of this is stuff I either have (keep down costs of starting again) or I just want (Beastmen, new Daemon Prince, Possessed).

 

Is there anything here that is 'no dont do this' levels of bad, or clearly flawed? I'll note that the mobility is low, but I'm not interested in Bikes until new sculpts come, as I tried to save some years and years ago and it was just a mess, and I've had Raptors and dont really want them again.

 

I have plenty of old 40K experience, but absolutely NOTHING recent so if anything under the spoiler is just boneheaded, feel free to let me know why! :D

[Rain]

Yes, you are talking a Khorne DP alongside a cowardly Tzeentchian sorcerer. The Blood God will smite you for such duplicity.

 

On a slightly more serious note, fencesitter Marines can take Beastmen? Man, maybe I should have just gone Red Corsairs when I was coming back. World Eaters could really use some more options. I wasn’t too upset about losing Raptors, Oblits, or Havocs, but I’d love some Beastmen, or unique Terminators, or unique demon engines, or even generic Possessed. Eightbound are alright but they are more like Mutilators than they are like Possessed gamewise. World Eaters are a melee only army that lacks an elite melee unit that can be taken in big squads.

[Scribe]

17 minutes ago, Rain said:

Yes, you are talking a Khorne DP alongside a cowardly Tzeentchian sorcerer. The Blood God will smite you for such duplicity.

 

On a slightly more serious note, fencesitter Marines can take Beastmen? Man, maybe I should have just gone Red Corsairs when I was coming back. World Eaters could really use some more options. I wasn’t too upset about losing Raptors, Oblits, or Havocs, but I’d love some Beastmen, or unique Terminators, or unique demon engines, or even generic Possessed. Eightbound are alright but they are more like Mutilators than they are like Possessed gamewise. World Eaters are a melee only army that lacks an elite melee unit that can be taken in big squads.

 

The WE book failed us.

[acrozatarim]

You'll probably want to change up some of the Marks - the CSM legionaries, for example, tend to be better built for melee, whereas the MoN and MoT help principally with shooting - but there's nothing that on first glance looks like a 'do not do this' level of bad. Of course, it's a bit hard to tell exactly how some of this stuff is going to pan out in 10th until folks get a good few more games in.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Where do you intend to put your characters?  Neither can go with the possessed, so if you want to buff those you are better off swapping one of them for a master of possession, who seems like a good fit to improve their effectiveness and survivability.

 

Oh, and keep an eye out to how useful Dark Pact actually turns out to be - from past experience, I'm wary of abilities that only do things on a roll of 6.  If it turns out not to be that great, 70 points of enhancements that either buff its effect (Liber) or benefit off of it (Eye) might be points better spent elsewhere.

Edited June 22, 2023 by Dr_Ruminahui

[Iron Father Ferrum]

If you want to really maximize the potential of Possessed, make them Undivided.

 

Slaanesh is nice for the advance & charge via stratagem, I get it. . . but if they're Undivided then when you apply Profane Zeal to them they can reroll all hits & all wounds.  Not failed hit & wound rolls, but all.  If they're under Dark Pacts for that Fight Phase (and why wouldn't they be?) they get Devastating Wounds (any wound roll of a 6 bypasses armor & invulnerable saves and inflict mortal wounds instead of regular damage).  So you get into combat, you pop Dark Pacts for Sustained Hits 1, roll your hits, reroll your misses, roll your wounds. . . and reroll every wound roll that isn't a 6.  I had three Possessed inflict 14 mortal wounds in addition to another five regular wounding hits and just pick up Bladeguard Veterans yesterday.  If you're worried about your charge range, put in a Master of Possession -- he gives the squad a 6+ Feel No Pain and a +1" to charge rolls.

 

Make sure the Tzeentch CSM squad has a heavy weapon with a decent range -- at least 36" -- so that you can ostensibly make an attack on the enemy every turn, trigger the Dark Pact, and get that extra CP.  From my one game of 10th so far, that extra CP per turn was SUPER helpful.

 

From the Mark layout, the only place the Apostle can go is with the Cultist Mob and frankly I feel like that's a waste -- especially with the Liber.  With both Pact effects you can definitely get some chip damage on something but I don't feel like there's a real benefit there.  I'd be interested in hearing your justification for this attachment.  Plus, if you pull the Liber off the Apostle but keep a Helbrute near the unit, you get the Liber's benefit anyway and that frees up enough points to give the Talisman of Burning Blood to the Daemon Prince.  He's pretty blender-y, so giving him extra strength & attacks will help him clean up against heavy infantry and vehicles.

 

 

[Scribe]

Good feedback all, I appreciate it.

 

The cultists was really just a fluffy choice, but in looking at the potential of the unit, its probably not the way to go. I was going to put the Apostle with them, to bump up their potential, but it could very well be a case of throwing points at a unit combo that isnt going to get the job done.

 

The Tzeentch unit was just going to fish for Lethals, with a lot of shots.

 

The reason for the various marks I used, is to try and maximize the Pact rule, leaning too much into it? Probably. 5+ mathematically is still decent, but of course its dice and variance.

 

Probably getting too cute with the Pact rule and hoping it would do a lot of heavy lifting. :D

[Dr_Ruminahui]

13 hours ago, Iron Father Ferrum said:

If you're worried about your charge range, put in a Master of Possession -- he gives the squad a 6+ Feel No Pain and a +1" to charge rolls.

 

Some great advice by IFF, with a minor quibble here - the +1 advance and charge from the MoP on possessed is misleading, as since he is only move 8 and possessed are move 9, he's slowing the unit down by one which the +1 advance & charge only kind of makes up for.  So, rather than a bonus, he's just (mostly) putting the possessed back to where they would be movement wize if he weren't there.  The 6+++ FNP he gives the unit seems nice, though.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Pacta did a LOT for me, but I can't stress the importance of Helbrutes.  The aura for giving both effects is fantastic, especially if you're Marked by a God and thus get both benefits on a 5+.  I almost one-shotted a Repulsor with Nurgle Havocs.  Three guys with lascannons landed FIVE wounding hits (one 3 & two 5s on the hit rolls that popped both Lethal and Sustained); if it weren't for Armor of Contempt, I'd have popped it T1.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

1 minute ago, Dr_Ruminahui said:

 

Some great advice by IFF, with a minor quibble here - the +1 advance and charge from the MoP on possessed is misleading, as since he is only move 8 and possessed are move 9, he's slowing the unit down by one which the +1 advance & charge only kind of makes up for.  So, rather than a bonus, he's just (mostly) putting the possessed back to where they would be movement wize if he weren't there.  The 6+++ FNP he gives the unit seems nice, though.

 Put him at the front of the squad when placed on the table and as you go across the board, the Possessed flow around him.  He'll slowly fall back through the ranks, but you're likely to make it into combat or get blown off the board before he actually slows down the squad.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

My recollection of previous editions where you could join characters to units (so 3-7th ed) there was generally a rule that units could only move as fast as their slowest model.  Looking through the 10e rules and their commentary, there doesn't seem to be any such rule this time around - so what IFF suggests would indeed seem to work.

[Scribe]

27 minutes ago, Iron Father Ferrum said:

Pacta did a LOT for me, but I can't stress the importance of Helbrutes.  The aura for giving both effects is fantastic, especially if you're Marked by a God and thus get both benefits on a 5+.  I almost one-shotted a Repulsor with Nurgle Havocs.  Three guys with lascannons landed FIVE wounding hits (one 3 & two 5s on the hit rolls that popped both Lethal and Sustained); if it weren't for Armor of Contempt, I'd have popped it T1.

 

This was my thought process for sure around the Helbrutes and the Marks. Glad to hear it worked out, as it seems that this is what GW was going for for the army.