Good combos?

[L30n1d4s]

One pretty strong combo that I have been looking at is a squad of Deathwatch Aggressors with Auto boltstorm gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launchers and attached Gravis Captain (equipped with the Tome of Ectoclades enhancement), all supported by a humble Land Speeder.

 

The Land Speeder "designates" a target in LOS for +1 to hit and Ignore Cover, you use Mission Tactics to give the whole Army Sustained Hits 1, and the Captain gives the unit Hellfire Rounds for free to give them Anti-Infantry 2+ and also activates a "free" Oath of Moment on the enemy with his Tome of Ectoclades.

 

Against something like a 20 man Necron Warrior phalanx (maxed out with -1 to hit and 5+++ FNP), the Fragstorm Grenade Launchers get an average of 42 shots, all hitting on 3+s with full re-rolls to Hit, 2+s to wound on infantry (again, with full re-rolls), and AP-1. The Aggressors should average around 44 hits, around 43 wounds, and 28 unsaved wounds, wiping out the Necron Warriors before that get any chance to do any of their Reanimation shenanigans (and this doesn't even count the 18 shots from the Auto boltstorm gauntlets).

 

[Tacitus]

1 hour ago, L30n1d4s said:

One pretty strong combo that I have been looking at is a squad of Deathwatch Aggressors with Auto boltstorm gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launchers and attached Gravis Captain (equipped with the Tome of Ectoclades enhancement), all supported by a humble Land Speeder.

 

The Land Speeder "designates" a target in LOS for +1 to hit and Ignore Cover, you use Mission Tactics to give the whole Army Sustained Hits 1, and the Captain gives the unit Hellfire Rounds for free to give them Anti-Infantry 2+ and also activates a "free" Oath of Moment on the enemy with his Tome of Ectoclades.

 

Against something like a 20 man Necron Warrior phalanx (maxed out with -1 to hit and 5+++ FNP), the Fragstorm Grenade Launchers get an average of 42 shots, all hitting on 3+s with full re-rolls to Hit, 2+s to wound on infantry (again, with full re-rolls), and AP-1. The Aggressors should average around 44 hits, around 43 wounds, and 28 unsaved wounds, wiping out the Necron Warriors before that get any chance to do any of their Reanimation shenanigans (and this doesn't even count the 18 shots from the Auto boltstorm gauntlets).

 

Be careful of that generalization.  Guilliman does the same thing, but its not actually a second Oath of Moment Target - so Terminators with their Fury of the First ability isn't triggered by this second target and it'll be easy to skip over that bit. 

[Malakithe]

2 hours ago, L30n1d4s said:

One pretty strong combo that I have been looking at is a squad of Deathwatch Aggressors with Auto boltstorm gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launchers and attached Gravis Captain (equipped with the Tome of Ectoclades enhancement), all supported by a humble Land Speeder.

 

The Land Speeder "designates" a target in LOS for +1 to hit and Ignore Cover, you use Mission Tactics to give the whole Army Sustained Hits 1, and the Captain gives the unit Hellfire Rounds for free to give them Anti-Infantry 2+ and also activates a "free" Oath of Moment on the enemy with his Tome of Ectoclades.

 

Against something like a 20 man Necron Warrior phalanx (maxed out with -1 to hit and 5+++ FNP), the Fragstorm Grenade Launchers get an average of 42 shots, all hitting on 3+s with full re-rolls to Hit, 2+s to wound on infantry (again, with full re-rolls), and AP-1. The Aggressors should average around 44 hits, around 43 wounds, and 28 unsaved wounds, wiping out the Necron Warriors before that get any chance to do any of their Reanimation shenanigans (and this doesn't even count the 18 shots from the Auto boltstorm gauntlets).

 

Thats cool and all but damn thats a lot just to wipe out a single unit of Warriors

[Minsc]

23 hours ago, Minsc said:

And some units don't really need a leader but are fine on their own, like Sternguard. 

Speaking of combos, I got the idea from someone at dakka, and I'll probably give it a go soon;
 

Gravis Captain (with Honor Vehements or Artificer Armour, undecided as both are good) + A. Biologis (with Bolter Discipline) +6 Aggressors with Boltstorm/Fragstorm, all stuffed inside a Land Raider Crusader.
Probably not the most competitive choice, and it's ... quite expensive at 660-665 pts, but the sheer amount of bullets and explosions spraying out of that unit as it burts out of the Land Raider is hilarious.
 

 

I forgot to add the most important part to this combo: Make sure theyr'e in Dev. Doctrine (use Adaptive Strategy if they aren't) and use Storm of Fire.
(Don't forget the Captain gives them 1 free strat.)

That's alot S4 AP2 shots (AP1 if not the closest target) that ignore cover and autowound and sustain on 5+
Without OoM:
Boltstorms: 18 shots (6 autowounds, 6 sustained) = 12 hits, 6 autowounds.
Fragsstorms (w/o blastbonuses): 21 shots average (7 autowounds, 7 sustained) = 14 hits, 7 autowounds. 
Total of 26 hits and 13 autowounds, 
 

With OoM:
Boltstorms: 18 shots (6 autowounds, 6 sustained) = 12 hits, 6 autowounds + 6 shots (2 autowounds, 2 sustained) = 4 hits, 2 autowounds.
Fragsstorms (w/o blastbonuses): 21 shots average (7 autowounds, 7 sustained) = 14 hits, 7 autowounds + 7 shots (2,33 autowounds, 2,33 sustained) = 4,66 hits, 2,33 autowounds.

Total of 34,66 hits and 17,33 autowounds.

Even against T8+ targets where they only wound on 6's, you're looking at 19,00* (without OoM) and 27,91 (with OoM) AP2 wounds that ignore cover on average. 
(*Taking TL on the Boltstorms only into account.)
 

 

[SkimaskMohawk]

8 hours ago, Tacitus said:

If im taking Cents, they're probably not Dev Cents - I get more grav and more Las from Power Armor Dev Squads for less than I get from Cents.  Maybe it changes when points get updated.  Probably not.  Dev Cents pay 70 points per Grav+Las shot.  Double Devs pay 60 points per Grav+Las Shot.

 

What I said about dev cents is that they definitely will have to move because of the nature of some boards, but I'll also add because the nature of the game doesn't reward stuff going in the open. That was in response of you saying you don't ever want to disembark after moving with a storm raven because all the units that can go in it have better options.

 

You brought up dev cents, I replied to it; idk why youre now saying you'd never take them and doing a points comparison. They're two very different units that are used in different ways; one is a very fragile glass cannon that needs to target the oath unit, the other is a very durable infantry unit that is able to operate away from oath. You use them in different ways on different areas of the board.

[Tacitus]

5 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

 

What I said about dev cents is that they definitely will have to move because of the nature of some boards, but I'll also add because the nature of the game doesn't reward stuff going in the open. That was in response of you saying you don't ever want to disembark after moving with a storm raven because all the units that can go in it have better options.

 

You brought up dev cents, I replied to it; idk why youre now saying you'd never take them and doing a points comparison. They're two very different units that are used in different ways; one is a very fragile glass cannon that needs to target the oath unit, the other is a very durable infantry unit that is able to operate away from oath. You use them in different ways on different areas of the board.

Well I was saying you wouldn't disembark fighty units from a Stormraven after moving.  Because they're stuck there, and can't fight.  Shooty Units you just put in something faster, like a Repulsor.  Sure the Stormraven can move 40 inches in one turn, but that's only starting on Turn 3.  By then the Repulsor has moved 10, D6, 10, D6, and 10 D6 if it has to.   Losing at least two turns before you can even control the Stormraven (an its embarked units) when the game is only 5 tuns long is just too expensive of an opportunity cost. 

 

Lets try it this way:  you've got a 2,000 point army, and 5 turns to play with it.  Lets call it 10,000 points of opportunity.  lets say your 20 point intercessor dies on turn 1, you lost 80 opportunity points - now lets say a 600 point combined unit that you can't use turn 1 or turn 2 just took 1200 points off that ideal  10,000 because of deployment.   Now overwatch and Heroic Intervention CAN get you some bonus opportunity points, but its probably not going to make 1200 worth. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

21 minutes ago, Tacitus said:

Well I was saying you wouldn't disembark fighty units from a Stormraven after moving.  Because they're stuck there, and can't fight. 

 

Well ya, obviously you don't put melee units in a flyer; it's why the storm eagle isnt taken as a one off assault transport in 30k in the 10 years the games been out. But with enough terrain, you can start it on the table in hover. 

 

28 minutes ago, Tacitus said:

Shooty Units you just put in something faster, like a Repulsor.  Sure the Stormraven can move 40 inches in one turn, but that's only starting on Turn 3.  By then the Repulsor has moved 10, D6, 10, D6, and 10 D6 if it has to.   Losing at least two turns before you can even control the Stormraven (an its embarked units) when the game is only 5 tuns long is just too expensive of an opportunity cost. 

 

In hover you move 20"; that's faster than 10". It can advance just like the repulsor, though realistically you're not advancing either every turn because you need to shoot the guns they come with and you're not using the Strat on the vehicle; you're using it on your bolter drill unit.

[Malakithe]

Normally I wouldnt advocate for taking a unit with less models then what its supposed to be at but a unit of Infernus + Lt w/Bolter Disc in a Drop Pod will probably annihilate anything it lands near. 9d6 auto hitting shots with Lethal and Sustained should be quite gross. 

[Karhedron]

6 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

Normally I wouldnt advocate for taking a unit with less models then what its supposed to be at but a unit of Infernus + Lt w/Bolter Disc in a Drop Pod will probably annihilate anything it lands near. 9d6 auto hitting shots with Lethal and Sustained should be quite gross. 

 

Actually I don't think that will work. You do not roll to hit with Torrent weapons which means you cannot trigger either Lethal or Sustained Hits. If you do want to include a Character to lead them (and I am not sure they need it) then a Captain for free use of the Overwatch stratagem or a Libby for a 4++ would be better choices IMHO.

[Minsc]

5 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Normally I wouldnt advocate for taking a unit with less models then what its supposed to be at but a unit of Infernus + Lt w/Bolter Disc in a Drop Pod will probably annihilate anything it lands near. 9d6 auto hitting shots with Lethal and Sustained should be quite gross. 

 

Autohits (Torrent) doesn't  normally trigger Lethal or Sustained.

 

10 of them with a Captain for free  overwatch as Karhedron suggested above can be pretty hilarious though. 

 

I'd go all the way and attach Vulkan to them though. :P

Edited July 8, 2023 by Minsc

[CCE1981]

Land Raider Crusader, Multi-melta Devastator Squad, 10-man Infernus squad, and Vulkan.

[Malakithe]

Well daaaaaamn...guess thats one less character I need

[CCE1981]

I wrote up a list with that combo, plus two standard Land Raiders with a 6-man Bladeguard, Primaris Lt attached and a Devastator Squad in each.  

[Karhedron]

6 hours ago, CCE1981 said:

I wrote up a list with that combo, plus two standard Land Raiders with a 6-man Bladeguard, Primaris Lt attached and a Devastator Squad in each.  

 

Sounds pretty spicy. What is the Dev squad packing, Grav?

 

My personal preference would be a Judiciar to lead the BGVs. While Lethal Hits is nice, I think that Fights First is better. FF works even when charged or Heroically Intervening which means enemies will have to be very careful about getting into melee anywhere near the BGVs.

[CCE1981]

An easy switch out.