I'd love to see ... [new edition rulebook suggestion]

[Helias_Tancred]

I've played 40k since midway through 6th edition. Since then I've bought each edition's big fat rulebook. I wish going forward they made a very slimmed down rulebook with the rules, missions, and anything else mission critical to playing the game especially if you are a veteran player. 

 

I'm tired of paying for:

 

1. Lore that I either already know better than the names of my family members, or can read online, or get from the plethora of BL 40k books I regularly read or listen to.

2. Explanations of how it's a collect/build/paint/play hobby ... which at this point I think I've got a very strong grasp on ....

3. Pictures of the same 40k factions I've seen hundreds of previous pictures of going back all the previous edition rulebooks.

4. Same artwork I've seen before. 

 

$25 USD. Call it the Veteran's 10th edition Rulebook. Keep it picture and graphic lite. Give us what matters. 

 

Keep the big bloated $65 dollar one, it's actually great for those new to the hobby .... but let us veterans save a little bit of money! I promise you'll get in in another miniature box purchase lol. 

 

 

 

[Kastor Krieg]

They've already done that, in 6th edition I think. There was a Big Rulebook and a Small Rulebook, A5 sized and soft covered, without most of the fluff and images, just rules.

 

[Noserenda]

Yeah i miss the a5 rulebooks, i did think this was a pipe dream but then they really do like insisting that the launch boxes are not starter boxes for new players...

[ZeroWolf]

In 9th you did get slimmed down rule books with the more expensive tier starter boxes (in contrast to AoS which has the slim rules book in every set*)

 

We'll probably get it again once they unveil this year's starters.

[Arikel]

I’d prefer real free online rules for the game with everything needed to play, including army lists, like they are launching 10th with. The plan to gate army lists after codexes release leaves me with a sour taste. 
 

I would also like to see the edition last longer than 3 years, but that’s likely even more of a pipe dream.

[Felix Antipodes]

3 hours ago, Eilio Tiberius said:

I've played 40k since midway through 6th edition. Since then I've bought each edition's big fat rulebook. I wish going forward they made a very slimmed down rulebook with the rules, missions, and anything else mission critical to playing the game especially if you are a veteran player. 

 

I'm tired of paying for:

 

1. Lore that I either already know better than the names of my family members, or can read online, or get from the plethora of BL 40k books I regularly read or listen to.

2. Explanations of how it's a collect/build/paint/play hobby ... which at this point I think I've got a very strong grasp on ....

3. Pictures of the same 40k factions I've seen hundreds of previous pictures of going back all the previous edition rulebooks.

4. Same artwork I've seen before. 

 

$25 USD. Call it the Veteran's 10th edition Rulebook. Keep it picture and graphic lite. Give us what matters. 

 

Keep the big bloated $65 dollar one, it's actually great for those new to the hobby .... but let us veterans save a little bit of money! I promise you'll get in in another miniature box purchase lol. 

 

 

 

While I don’t have a problem with BRB’s in general, I have to agree that GW should give us more bang for our buck.

1.  Lore should be core stuff overall and concise, with the majority focusing on whatever storyline the new edition is pushing.

2.  Agree with this.  They can always put out a separate booklet (as has been done several times in the past) if they think their online guides aren’t enough.

3.  Realistically, we are always going to get the same factions in the pictorial content.  It is all about selling stuff after all.  For all that, I’d also like to see some of the lesser lights getting a higher proportion of the limelight.  This is more a codex issue though imho.

4.  This.  Yes, GW, you have built up a huge back catalogue of art over the decades.  That doesn’t mean you can’t commission new stuff for a new edition BRB so that your loyal customers can feel like they’re appreciated and not taken for granted.  You can then load up the codices with the older classic stuff.

 

[Helias_Tancred]

Help me out here, but couldn't I just take the 10th edition rules to say a Kinkos and have them print them in a ringed heavier stock paper format? I've got a buddy that did that with the 1st edition AD&D players handbook. lol he swears by it.

 

 

[ZeroWolf]

You can indeed 

[Valkyrion]

I thought this already happened? I'm sure I've got at least 2 A5 paperback copies of 9th knocking about from a mission pack, or am I mistaken?

[sarabando]

imo codexs should have no rules in them and should be a massive collection of lore, art, and hobby articles for that faction. 

[ZeroWolf]

10 minutes ago, sarabando said:

imo codexs should have no rules in them and should be a massive collection of lore, art, and hobby articles for that faction. 

This will only happen once GW stop making money on them...which hasn't happened yet.

 

1 hour ago, Valkyrion said:

I thought this already happened? I'm sure I've got at least 2 A5 paperback copies of 9th knocking about from a mission pack, or am I mistaken?

You're not mistaken, I was looking at a few on ebay before 10th was unveiled.

[Volt]

I'd rather just have rules completely stripped of fluff in the first place, artwork as well, as I've never gotten its purpose and it adds nothing to the game. The way GW did things in the past was far more sensible, wherein there would simply be one big book containing rules for literally all units, with artwork or fluff left to other books. Most wargames do this, and why GW does so is either purely greed or obtuse fixation upon presentation at the cost of efficiency.

[Evil Eye]

To me at least the problem is less the rulebook + codex system, and more that the rules GW are putting out just aren't worth the paper they're printed on. I'd be fine with paying for rules if they weren't as utterly dreadful as they are right now.

 

I know some people want the rules to go fully digital but there's issues with that model.

1: Not all of us own a tablet or other smart device portable enough to bring to a game. My only such device is a very cheap and outdated smartphone.

2: GW would most likely lock such rules behind an app rather than simply releasing them as PDFs, thus turning 40K into a "game as a service" which is the last thing the hobby needs.

3: If the rules were free, I fear "you get what you pay for" would be in full effect- that is to say, GW putting in a token effort and excusing the inevitably shoddy product with "Well it's free!".

 

Assuming GW actually manages to put out a not completely awful ruleset (unlikely given precedent) I'd rather it was released in full treeware, with FAQs and errata being released as PDFs, and supplements and additional rules being released as separate books, but the actual contents of the books remaining completely fixed thereafter. No points adjustments or datasheet replacements; once the book is out, it's valid forever. I'd also like the codexes to have actual hobby content in them again; I miss the days when they were fun and interesting to read and weren't just rules repositories.

[sarabando]

58 minutes ago, Volt said:

I'd rather just have rules completely stripped of fluff in the first place, artwork as well, as I've never gotten its purpose and it adds nothing to the game. 

so why dont you just play chess? (genuine question)

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

11 hours ago, Arikel said:

I’d prefer real free online rules for the game with everything needed to play, including army lists, like they are launching 10th with. The plan to gate army lists after codexes release leaves me with a sour taste. 
 

I would also like to see the edition last longer than 3 years, but that’s likely even more of a pipe dream.

How long an edition should last for me depends on how good it is.

 

if they screw it up from the beginning I’d be ok with a 1 yr turnover.

if it starts off well and they screw it up by trying to constantly ‘keep things fresh’ then a 3 yr turnover is just right.

 

if the edition is good and stays strong the I hope it goes on for quite a few years.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

11 hours ago, Arikel said:

I’d prefer real free online rules for the game with everything needed to play, including army lists, like they are launching 10th with. The plan to gate army lists after codexes release leaves me with a sour taste. 
 

I would also like to see the edition last longer than 3 years, but that’s likely even more of a pipe dream.

How long an edition should last for me depends on how good it is.

 

if they screw it up from the beginning I’d be ok with a 1 yr turnover.

if it starts off well and they screw it up by trying to constantly ‘keep things fresh’ then a 3 yr turnover is just right.

 

if the edition is good and stays strong the I hope it goes on for quite a few years.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

2 hours ago, Volt said:

I'd rather just have rules completely stripped of fluff in the first place, artwork as well, as I've never gotten its purpose and it adds nothing to the game. The way GW did things in the past was far more sensible, wherein there would simply be one big book containing rules for literally all units, with artwork or fluff left to other books. Most wargames do this, and why GW does so is either purely greed or obtuse fixation upon presentation at the cost of efficiency.

What edition is it that didn’t have artwork in the BRB? Every rulebook I have as far back as 3rd has artwork in it, I think it also had lore blurbs. Maybe not pages laying out basic lore of each faction, but lore was always still there.

[Brother Carpenter]

11 hours ago, Arikel said:

I would also like to see the edition last longer than 3 years, but that’s likely even more of a pipe dream.

Or be able to use your codex in multiple editions.

[Arikel]

1 hour ago, Evil Eye said:

To me at least the problem is less the rulebook + codex system, and more that the rules GW are putting out just aren't worth the paper they're printed on. I'd be fine with paying for rules if they weren't as utterly dreadful as they are right now.

 

I know some people want the rules to go fully digital but there's issues with that model.

1: Not all of us own a tablet or other smart device portable enough to bring to a game. My only such device is a very cheap and outdated smartphone.

2: GW would most likely lock such rules behind an app rather than simply releasing them as PDFs, thus turning 40K into a "game as a service" which is the last thing the hobby needs.

3: If the rules were free, I fear "you get what you pay for" would be in full effect- that is to say, GW putting in a token effort and excusing the inevitably shoddy product with "Well it's free!".

 

Assuming GW actually manages to put out a not completely awful ruleset (unlikely given precedent) I'd rather it was released in full treeware, with FAQs and errata being released as PDFs, and supplements and additional rules being released as separate books, but the actual contents of the books remaining completely fixed thereafter. No points adjustments or datasheet replacements; once the book is out, it's valid forever. I'd also like the codexes to have actual hobby content in them again; I miss the days when they were fun and interesting to read and weren't just rules repositories.

I do like the books and all myself and I can understand the sentiment here. I still think the core rules and army lists should be made freely available online.

 

In regards to edition churn, the 3 year cycle bothers me quite a bit. It’s hard to get a handle on the rules in such a short period, especially with codexes that are released near the end of the edition. I am a slow builder and painter to begin with also, even more so with the large family I have.  My cadia stands fellows are barely started and already the rules are no good as an example. It would be nice to get a good few years use out of rules before they reset.

[ZeroWolf]

1 hour ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

What edition is it that didn’t have artwork in the BRB? Every rulebook I have as far back as 3rd has artwork in it, I think it also had lore blurbs. Maybe not pages laying out basic lore of each faction, but lore was always still there.

Same as the 2nd and Rogue Trader rulebooks

 And even first edition WFB.

[Rain]

42 minutes ago, Arikel said:

I do like the books and all myself and I can understand the sentiment here. I still think the core rules and army lists should be made freely available online.

 

In regards to edition churn, the 3 year cycle bothers me quite a bit. It’s hard to get a handle on the rules in such a short period, especially with codexes that are released near the end of the edition. I am a slow builder and painter to begin with also, even more so with the large family I have.  My cadia stands fellows are barely started and already the rules are no good as an example. It would be nice to get a good few years use out of rules before they reset.

World Eaters finally got a standalone codex in February that got invalidated in June. Not sure why they bothered, but GW gonna GW. 

[ThePenitentOne]

I think GW did things almost perfectly this time around?

 

I mean, not that the rules are "the best ever" - that's not the case.

 

But releasing online the real, full rules (as opposed to what we got in 8th/9th which was but the surface of rules) for free is a step forward.

Releasing online Indexes and datacards for free? That caught me off guard- that is an amazing thing, and a huge step forward for GW. 

 

Elevating Crusade to a parallel book release AND also including it in the promo BRB? That's a hat trick.

 

Look at the options I've got here:

 

1. All free digital content. Play Matched play for free. Buy a matched play deck (I think the Promo BRB has a few missions, but it sounds like they lean on the cards  pretty hard)

2. Add to free content the Crusade stand alone book (This is my Option of Choice)

3. Buy the Promo BRB, use the free Indexes.

4. Buy the Promo BRB and the Commercial cards.

5. Do rules and cards via the App until the dexes drop. Not an ideal solution for Crusaders.

 

Now think about update potential- if we can update a digital card and reprint it, we now longe have source material that contains errors. When your dex drops, you'll probably want the 5-6 new detachments it will include, and if you're like me, you're mostly waiting for the bespoke Crusade content, but if you are playing on the cheap, you can just keep using your detachment as is and pick up the cards. I do think locking the App content behind a dex code is a bad idea. If GW is afraid of losing many, lock it behind the WH+ membership instead of pairing it with the App subscription (assuming they're still planning on having an App subscription price independent of WH+)

 

Want to update matched play next season? New deck of Mission Cards. Have a group that's flexible enough and you'll be able to choose a deck prior to the game, or if they're really flexible, you could build a deck with cards from all the other sets. 

 

Don't get me wrong- there's room for improvement- fewer card errors, Faction specific content VS Campaign content in the first Crusade book of the edition, as mentioned above, paywall locking on the App (they could add a low-cost in App purchase instead of locking it to the dex).

 

And this also isn't to say I'm 100% content with all the rules either- but that's another topic. In terms of the variety the ways to access rules content, and particularly at a variety of price points, the game has never in its history been better off than it is right now.

[Scribe]

1 hour ago, Rain said:

World Eaters finally got a standalone codex in February that got invalidated in June. Not sure why they bothered, but GW gonna GW. 

 

Because people bought it. The writing was on the wall for just how long that hollow shell of a faction was going to be valid. I waited near 20 years for that, and they completely stuffed it.

[Helias_Tancred]

5 hours ago, sarabando said:

so why dont you just play chess? (genuine question)

 

Different strokes for different folks. I see the logic in having a rulebook strictly limited to that. Heck I'd probably buy it for this edition (Sorta what my post was about). I love the lore and artwork (as long as they commission new art), but I'd love a barebones stripped down rulebook.

 

[ZeroWolf]

13 minutes ago, Eilio Tiberius said:

 

Different strokes for different folks. I see the logic in having a rulebook strictly limited to that. Heck I'd probably buy it for this edition (Sorta what my post was about). I love the lore and artwork (as long as they commission new art), but I'd love a barebones stripped down rulebook.

 

Then your best bet is either print off the core rules pdf or hang fire till September time (or whenever GW release the starters) and sniping a solo copy of the smaller rule book included in the starters (mid tier and above) from eBay.