Wild Speculation on this summer's Space Marine Releases?

[painting.for.my.sanity]

On 6/26/2023 at 5:04 AM, Tacitus said:

Primaris Gravitynators - we've got Primaris Flamers, Primaris Melters, and Primaris Missileers, and Primaris Plasmers.  We're still missing the Primaris massers.   I wonder if they'll have a naming competition.  Dibs on Primaris Massassinators if they do. 

 

Surely they'd be a Primaris Imploder Squad ?

[CCE1981]

Multi-part Suppressor Squad with alternate Vulkite Culverins.

[Xenith]

Multipart terminators, sternguard and incinerators.

 

Multipart Bladeguard ancient kit to replace the lost indomitus one.

 

Wishlist would be finally an assault squad/vanguard. 

[Tacitus]

5 hours ago, Xenith said:

Multipart Bladeguard ancient kit to replace the lost indomitus one.

 

The what now?

[arnesh88]

Primarily, I would just like to see the new Jump Pack primaris squads, updated Terminators/Terminator Captain kits, and updated special character kits like Cato Sicarius, Pedro Cantor, Vulkan He'stan, etc.

[Marshal Reinhard]

The recent ancient kit has two banner options. One that looks like the Dark Imperium one and one thats the big indomitus icon, like on the blade guard shields. That one is clearly meant as the blade guard option

[Brother Captain Vakarian]

With a little work, it even fits on a Bladeguard model! Actually, make that a decent bit of work—I had to do some cutting and filing on the hand and the banner pole to make this conversion work. So a new Bladeguard Ancient for folks that don’t want to convert would be a nice addition to the range. 

 

 

For more serious speculation, it feels like jump pack Primaris (VanVets and normal squad), Assault Terminators, and Scouts have to be imminent in some form, along with jump pack and terminator characters.  Oh, and multipart Terminator and Sternguard kits at a minimum too. 

 

[Tacitus]

7 hours ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

The recent ancient kit has two banner options. One that looks like the Dark Imperium one and one thats the big indomitus icon, like on the blade guard shields. That one is clearly meant as the blade guard option

I thought the Blade Guard Ancient that came with the Bladeguard squad in the indomitus box was the Bladeguard Ancient? 

The guy sitting in the middle here: 

Space Marines: Honoured of the Chapter | Games Workshop Webstore (games-workshop.com)

[Marshal Reinhard]

Sure. but that shared sprue will be retired eventually. They've covered the BGA with the added option in the ancient kit. 

 

Begs the question if there'll be a judicar mpk

[Tacitus]

2 hours ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

Sure. but that shared sprue will be retired eventually. They've covered the BGA with the added option in the ancient kit. 

 

Begs the question if there'll be a judicar mpk

I doubt the Judiciar sticks around.  Heck I doubt the BGV Ancient sticks around.  I think the "BGV" symbol is just more generic Space Marine iconography and not a BGV specific bit. 

 

Oh a more serious note than making fun of Primaris names, I did notice the Ravenwing/Bike special squads are tied to the Outrider squad not the Bike Squad making me wonder if they're getting an Outrider upgrade in the near future. 

[Marshal Reinhard]

31 minutes ago, Tacitus said:

I doubt the Judiciar sticks around.  Heck I doubt the BGV Ancient sticks around.  I think the "BGV" symbol is just more generic Space Marine iconography and not a BGV specific bit.

That's cool, bro. You do you.

[TheArtilleryman]

On 6/25/2023 at 8:41 PM, Xanthous said:

I wonder if the widely suspected Primaris jump pack troops will be Vanguard Veterans, to go with the Sternguard. I feel like jump assault intercessors wouldn't be interesting enough on their own, and I think that it'd be weird to do one type of veteran and not the other.

This was my first thought when I saw Leviathan. Although the rules in the Index cards are pants (no lightning claws, no thunder hammers etc) so I wonder if they will wait until the SM codex release and change the rules again…

Also terminators. I can’t see how they can release new terminators in Leviathan without also doing new ones for each faction.

[Tacitus]

20 hours ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

That's cool, bro. You do you.

I get that you happen to like them, I like the Judiciar too.  But that's not going to change much if GW decides to squat them.

There's no shortage of failed concepts/models or "temporary releases" that have/will have faded away  If they don't have their own niche/box by the start of the next edition, or their raison d'etre disappears, don't get too attached. 

 

Masters of the Chapter post Apocalypse.

The Primaris Lieutenant from Dark Imperium with the rifle and pistol instead of the power sword

Suppressors

Ultramarines Honor Guard without Storm Shields  (Two guys with power axes and a death wish are not how you protect the Chapter Master and the Colours). 

 

I'm not sure Suppressors were ever supposed to be more than filler in that half of the starter set  I'm not sure the BGV Ancient was either.  A special Ancient just to attach to one squad is a lot of shelf space.   My guess is they want him to fail, the datasheet disappears, and he becomes a alternate lookf or a "regular" Primaris Ancient.   Given the rules writing for the Judiciar this round, I think they want him to stick around.  I'm kind of surprised he can't join a squad led by a Captain or Chaplain, that would have all but cinched it.  But maybe that's why - it would have been too potent. 

 

 

[Tacitus]

10 hours ago, TheArtilleryman said:

This was my first thought when I saw Leviathan. Although the rules in the Index cards are pants (no lightning claws, no thunder hammers etc) so I wonder if they will wait until the SM codex release and change the rules again…

Also terminators. I can’t see how they can release new terminators in Leviathan without also doing new ones for each faction.

I do expect to see Primaris Vanguard Vets.  I don't expect Jump Assault Intercessors YET.  They have to find a way to give them something Eviscerator-adjacent without giving them Eviscerators - of course they've needed to do that since Assault Intercessors were released.  Even O.G. Intercessors have the 1-per-5 Aux Grenade Launchers potentially 1 per 5 Power Fist.   And yeah, they've pretty much locked themselves into a plethora of Terminator releases after you see one of the new ones standing next to one of the old ones.  Can't do Shootinators next to old school Hammernators, it'll look ridiculous.  Which means you have to toss in the Deathwing Squad, and the Deathwing Knights.  That could be the end of the Relic Terminators if they have to stay the same size for Horus Heresy games.   Not sure of the model scale there. 

[Marshal Reinhard]

6 hours ago, Tacitus said:

I get that you happen to like them, I like the Judiciar too.  But that's not going to change much if GW decides to squat them.

There's no shortage of failed concepts/models or "temporary releases" that have/will have faded away  If they don't have their own niche/box by the start of the next edition, or their raison d'etre disappears, don't get too attached. 

 

Masters of the Chapter post Apocalypse.

The Primaris Lieutenant from Dark Imperium with the rifle and pistol instead of the power sword

Suppressors

Ultramarines Honor Guard without Storm Shields  (Two guys with power axes and a death wish are not how you protect the Chapter Master and the Colours). 

 

I'm not sure Suppressors were ever supposed to be more than filler in that half of the starter set  I'm not sure the BGV Ancient was either.  A special Ancient just to attach to one squad is a lot of shelf space.   My guess is they want him to fail, the datasheet disappears, and he becomes a alternate lookf or a "regular" Primaris Ancient.   Given the rules writing for the Judiciar this round, I think they want him to stick around.  I'm kind of surprised he can't join a squad led by a Captain or Chaplain, that would have all but cinched it.  But maybe that's why - it would have been too potent. 

 

 

Was more you ignoring the obvious blade guard ancient replacement. But lets not duell on it

Edited June 30, 2023 by Marshal Reinhard

[Tacitus]

1 hour ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

Was more you ignoring the obvious blade guard ancient replacement. But lets not duell on it

I didn't ignore, I disagreed - its not a Bladeguard Ancient Replacement.  Neither of the two example "official" builds on the website are BGV Ancient "legal".  The Bladeguard Ancient cannot take either of the Bolt Rifle or the Power Sword.  I mean I suppose you could "kit bash" him by leaving off the Bolt Rifle and doing the two handed flag twirler pose or using a Heavy Bolt Pistol big from somewhere else.  But he's still also missing all the Bladeguard iconography like the robes, and the halo.  This was just an updated kit for the regular Primaris Ancient, they even released a free to download Datasheet when they released the clamshell - they did the same when they updated the updated. Gravis Captain.

[Blindhamster]

9 hours ago, Tacitus said:

Masters of the Chapter post Apocalypse.

They were just captains, its all they ever were really, and they continued to work just fine in that capacity.

 

9 hours ago, Tacitus said:

The Primaris Lieutenant from Dark Imperium with the rifle and pistol instead of the power sword

perfectly valid loadout even now

 

9 hours ago, Tacitus said:

Suppressors

Still available, may well get removed at some point, but not currently evident it's happening.

 

9 hours ago, Tacitus said:

Ultramarines Honor Guard without Storm Shields  (Two guys with power axes and a death wish are not how you protect the Chapter Master and the Colours)

The entire ultramarine honour guard did indeed get removed at this point, as did the blood angels one (which was even older). Both a shame as both units were very cool.

 

So yeah, the various bits on the combined sprues may get removed, but so far none of them have, which means we have no actual metric to base it on.

[Tacitus]

7 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

They were just captains, its all they ever were really, and they continued to work just fine in that capacity.

They were also an Apocalypse formation as I recall, and when that went away, so did they.

Quote

perfectly valid loadout even now

But no model for sale - which was my point.   Things that don't have a niche don't stick around.  An Ancient that only attaches to one squad is very unlikely to stick around - I'd be surprised if it ever got a solo release.  Of course I'm already surprised it's hung around longer than the Land Raider Ultima.

Quote

Still available, may well get removed at some point, but not currently evident it's happening.

Available where?  Ebay?  There's no box or kit for them.

[Marshal Reinhard]

5 minutes ago, Tacitus said:

But no model for sale - which was my point.

Timer for that is ticking. I would not bet on us passing by the coming Space marine release wave without the agastus lieutenant being made for release.

 

Of course you could argue that since it only has the large holster, it technically doesn't have the build available as there is no arm holding the standard bolt pistol

[Tacitus]

24 minutes ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

Timer for that is ticking. I would not bet on us passing by the coming Space marine release wave without the agastus lieutenant being made for release.

 

Of course you could argue that since it only has the large holster, it technically doesn't have the build available as there is no arm holding the standard bolt pistol

The agastus Lieutenant is just the lieutenant.  - he was marketed as the be all end all replacement sprue, but its missing a Storm shield.  The holstered pistol could be the Heavy Bolt Pistol, or the Volkite pistol.  Though it appears he can make the bolt rifle lieutenant from Dark Whatsitcalled from way back. 

[Tokugawa]

Many terminator products need to go to new scale. 

 

Vanguard may be merged with primaris new jump pack unit.

[Tacitus]

1 hour ago, Tokugawa said:

Many terminator products need to go to new scale. 

 

Vanguard may be merged with primaris new jump pack unit.

Vanguard probably ARE the new Primaris Jump Pack Unit.  But we still need the Assault Intercessor 1-per-5 upgrade, and a Jump Pack version kit. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

All FB are canned and primaris replacements take over

[Tacitus]

39 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

All FB are canned and primaris replacements take over

That's probably close to the end game.  I'd guess the majority of Space Marine players weren't getting a lot of model turn-over from the First Born, which meant their biggest seller wasn't generating continued sales.  I know I was in that boat.  The only time I bought something was if it was a a new unit, anew sculpt with a significant improvement over the old one I already had, or an old unit that had a significant rules change (think optimal load, options choices etc) that fed into one of my themes  I had all the Rhino chassis set up for magnetized sponsons and turrets to easily change from Rhino to Razorback to Predator to Whirlwind.  The only thing I couldn't make 3 of were the original LasPlas cool turret Razorback. 

 

Some firstborn will stick around - Scouts, Terminators/Other Elite McVeterans - but my bet is anything firstborn that does stick around gets upsized and becomes homogenous in a not specifically firstborn or primaris.  Assume they do Primaris-ify the Vanguard Vets - then Retcon First Companies to say Any veteran in the First Company could be Primaris or could be First born, but they're still in Tacticus armor as a X-Guard Vet, or TDA as a Terminator, Scouts are scouts and not either of anything - who is going to even blink at that?  Not many.  Follow that up with the replacement of the Rhino with the Trans-Por-Tor APC Tank by giving a Land Raider and an Impulsor a lilttle too much to drink and a couple Barry White albums and they're pretty much done.   Drop Pods already cross over, The already existant Impulsor will naturally replace the Razorback, Tac Squads are already pretty meh, Land Raiders and Repulsors cross over AND have different specialties similar to Firestrikes and Thunderfires.  You can do 3 Outriders and an ATV or 3 Bikes and an Attack Bike now - that's just begging for a merge and purge. 

 

Melta Devs - Eradicators

Plasma Devs - Hellblasters

Lascannon Devs - Used to be Eliminators - and could be corrected back

Missile Devs - Desolators

HB Devs - HINTS

You're only missing Grav Devs, and who would be surprised to see a new Grav based kit announced for Primaris-sized marines along the lines of the new Flam-or Marines? 

 

Hunter/Stalkers are one of the Impulsor Turret Tops and can be reworked Taking Top X sets Transport to Zero and gives you this gun.

 

Gladiators and Predators. 

 

What's left that doesn't have a replacement already out there not implemented, or the "replacement" doesn't actually replace/coexist the First Born thing?  Old Speeders and the Vindicator? 

 

I'd say Primaris was always a plan to replace the line over time, and the pushback just made them take a little longer to be a little more subtle, and maybe rethink the iconic/fan-favorites.

[Orion]

1 hour ago, Tacitus said:

That's probably close to the end game.  I'd guess the majority of Space Marine players weren't getting a lot of model turn-over from the First Born, which meant their biggest seller wasn't generating continued sales.  I know I was in that boat.  The only time I bought something was if it was a a new unit, anew sculpt with a significant improvement over the old one I already had, or an old unit that had a significant rules change (think optimal load, options choices etc) that fed into one of my themes  I had all the Rhino chassis set up for magnetized sponsons and turrets to easily change from Rhino to Razorback to Predator to Whirlwind.  The only thing I couldn't make 3 of were the original LasPlas cool turret Razorback. 

 

Some firstborn will stick around - Scouts, Terminators/Other Elite McVeterans - but my bet is anything firstborn that does stick around gets upsized and becomes homogenous in a not specifically firstborn or primaris.  Assume they do Primaris-ify the Vanguard Vets - then Retcon First Companies to say Any veteran in the First Company could be Primaris or could be First born, but they're still in Tacticus armor as a X-Guard Vet, or TDA as a Terminator, Scouts are scouts and not either of anything - who is going to even blink at that?  Not many.  Follow that up with the replacement of the Rhino with the Trans-Por-Tor APC Tank by giving a Land Raider and an Impulsor a lilttle too much to drink and a couple Barry White albums and they're pretty much done.   Drop Pods already cross over, The already existant Impulsor will naturally replace the Razorback, Tac Squads are already pretty meh, Land Raiders and Repulsors cross over AND have different specialties similar to Firestrikes and Thunderfires.  You can do 3 Outriders and an ATV or 3 Bikes and an Attack Bike now - that's just begging for a merge and purge. 

 

Melta Devs - Eradicators

Plasma Devs - Hellblasters

Lascannon Devs - Used to be Eliminators - and could be corrected back

Missile Devs - Desolators

HB Devs - HINTS

You're only missing Grav Devs, and who would be surprised to see a new Grav based kit announced for Primaris-sized marines along the lines of the new Flam-or Marines? 

 

Hunter/Stalkers are one of the Impulsor Turret Tops and can be reworked Taking Top X sets Transport to Zero and gives you this gun.

 

Gladiators and Predators. 

 

What's left that doesn't have a replacement already out there not implemented, or the "replacement" doesn't actually replace/coexist the First Born thing?  Old Speeders and the Vindicator? 

 

I'd say Primaris was always a plan to replace the line over time, and the pushback just made them take a little longer to be a little more subtle, and maybe rethink the iconic/fan-favorites.

 

Speaking of merge and purge. I kinda hate how the Primaris line up is so spread out. It's basically the opposite to the firstborn codex. Rather than clean and clear pillars you just have units all over the place.

 

Aggressors? Reavers? Do these have a place?
Suppressors? Inceptors?

Turning 1 Devastator squad into 4-7 "-ator" squads?

3 Dreadnoughts + a walker?

Another Apothecary, another lieutenant, another special weapon squad... etc

And people still want a Bladeguard Ancient?

If we get scouts, then we'll have scouts, reavers, infiltrators, incursors, eliminators.

 

I don't mean to be too much of a hater, but Primaris themselves seem to be a big contributor to bloat. Just feels like stuff for the sake of stuff.

Edited July 3, 2023 by JayJapanB