Wild Speculation on this summer's Space Marine Releases?

[Karhedron]

7 hours ago, Tacitus said:

I'm wondering if there will be a Heavy Flamer version which is now on the Devs not the Sternguard.

 

That would be pretty tasty. Sternguard usually want to be within 12" to maximise their shots from Rapid Fire so a Heavy Flamer would synergise nicely with this. Torrent also pairs nicely with Devastating Wounds. A melee weapon, at least for the Searg would be nice as well. I love the old pointing Power Fist look for shooty squads.

 

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

6 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

That would be pretty tasty. Sternguard usually want to be within 12" to maximise their shots from Rapid Fire so a Heavy Flamer would synergise nicely with this. Torrent also pairs nicely with Devastating Wounds. A melee weapon, at least for the Searg would be nice as well. I love the old pointing Power Fist look for shooty squads.

 

I should have mentioned the Heavy Flamer - yeah, I would expect/hope that there will be options in the Sternguard MPK for the Heavy Flamer, Grav-Cannon, and Plasma Cannon (or at least some version thereof). Most likely the Multi-Melta as well, but I could actually see them leaving that out and making it exclusive to the Eradicators from a squad standpoint.

 

But the idea would be that one guy per five could take either a proper "Heavy" weapon as is currently the case for the Firstborn kit OR take a Heavy Bolter variant as seen in the push-fit Leviathan squad, though again rules-wise all of the Heavy Bolter variants have the same statline at the moment.

 

And the only way I could see melee options not being in the box is if they just run out of room and end up stipulating that Sternguard Sergeants can raid the Assault Intercessor kit for Chainswords, Power Swords, Power Fists, or Thunder Hammers. I really can't see them upsizing the Sternguard to Primaris proportions and then completely freezing out the Sergeant's options.

 

That's frankly the one thing that has me cautious about expecting too much from this kit - having all of the ranged options I expect to see PLUS a proper complement of melee weapons AND then add in some decent vintage bits like earlier-mark helms/shoulder pads as well as some ornamental bling and those sprues fill up really quick. They just about have to leave out something. Maybe grav weapons won't show up at all, maybe it'll be something else that gets chopped.
 

Edited July 10, 2023 by Lord Nord

[Xanthous]

I'm genuinely curious as to why people want to see melee weapons for the Sternguard sergeant, aren't they supposed to be the elite marksmen of a chapter?

[Blindhamster]

I just want my sternguard sergeant to have a proper sword, not much else bothers me.

 

I think it’ll include a few different bolt rifles, I don’t think they’ll have different mag options, but the different rifles will have prebuilt different designs, like the mpk.

 

id expect some combi weapons, but not enough for the entire squad, and I’d expect a heavy bolter, but probably no other heavy option.

 

maybe a grenade launcher, same as intercessors

[Karhedron]

1 hour ago, Xanthous said:

I'm genuinely curious as to why people want to see melee weapons for the Sternguard sergeant, aren't they supposed to be the elite marksmen of a chapter?

 

Sternguard usually want to be within 12" to maximise the benefits of Rapid Fire. This means they will often be in range to charge or be charged themselves. Whilst not a powerhouse melee unit they get 4 S4 attacks each which is enough to bully weaker units. Sometimes being in melee is safe than standing in the open waiting to be shot. Lastly the Tactical Doctrine (or Adaptive Strategy stratagem) allows them to Fall Back and shoot (or even charge again) normally so it is not as if charging is going to hinder their shooting in the next turn.

 

Part of it depends on points costs in the actual codex. Right now we do not pay for melee weapon options on our Sergeants so there is almost no reason not to take a melee weapon where the option exists. The Primaris range generally has a lot less flexibility than the Firstborn units so it remains to be seen if Sternguard will actually get any weapon options when the MPK comes out.

[Tacitus]

I doubt Sternguard Sergeants will get a melee weapon swap.  Primaris "Elite" sergeants usually don't - Aggressor Sgts dont, Infiltrators, Incursors, Reivers, Outriders, and such.  Even when they do - its pretty minor like a pistol here and there - BGV, Hellbalsters, and such. 

[unrealchamp88]

I wonder if GW will eventually re-release existing primaris kits with weapon options, similar to what firstborn have, even if its just to push sales. For example, an Aggressor Sgt. with an option like...'Volkite Claws', would be wild!

Its a pipe-dream of course, but stuff like that would be in line with GWs desire for profit margins and give Primaris the 'gear options' which are so characteristic of classic marines.

 

Anyway, yes, weapon options for Sternguard would also fit as they are veterans and can take what they need from the chapter's arsenal.

[Tacitus]

Oh eventually they'll recycle back into the options, but that's a ways off - they'll finish merging and purging the first born - plus they have to get over this kick of strictly controlling options to put army generation on rails. 

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

4 hours ago, Xanthous said:

I'm genuinely curious as to why people want to see melee weapons for the Sternguard sergeant, aren't they supposed to be the elite marksmen of a chapter?

 

In my case, it's not an issue of "want." I'm talking about what I EXPECT to see in the kit. And with the Sternguard not being a wholly-new Primaris unit, I'm expecting the Sergeant to retain access to at least some of the same melee weapons that the Firstborn kit has. It would push convenience a little too far if all of the Firstborn Sternguard Sergeants throughout the galaxy were to suddenly and unilaterally decide that they didn't like to carry melee weapons just because they'd crossed the Rubicon.

 

4 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

I think it’ll include a few different bolt rifles, I don’t think they’ll have different mag options, but the different rifles will have prebuilt different designs, like the mpk.

 

I assume you mean "like the push-fit?" It's possible, like I said, I'm just talking about what I expect and basing that off the Primaris designs to date layered over the Firstborn Sternguard options. The push-fit squad strikes me as a "showcase" set - I think the MPK will have more ways for a whole squad to take the same or similar loadouts, but with the flexibility to mix those in greater depth than we've seen (of course, I'm still working from the idea that the kit was fully designed well prior to GW's rules team reducing most of those options down to "bolt rile" and "combi-weapon").

 

4 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

id expect some combi weapons, but not enough for the entire squad, and I’d expect a heavy bolter, but probably no other heavy option.

 

The push-fit kit already includes a Hellstorm Bolter, rather than a Heavy Bolter. You think the MPK will lack that option? Or do you mean no other options from the current heavy weapons list? I will say the latter would disappoint me, especially as those are part of the Sternguard appeal and reducing them to just the same heavy bolter variants as the Heavy Intercessors would be underwhelming. And it would be another case of veterans weirdly deciding to restrict their options after crossing the Rubicon.

 

But again there's only so much sprue space and just including one Heavy Flamer, one Grav Cannon, etc. would add up quick. Sacrificing those would free up a lot of room for the expected veteran bling bits.

[Orion]

5 minutes ago, Lord Nord said:

It would push convenience a little too far if all of the Firstborn Sternguard Sergeants throughout the galaxy were to suddenly and unilaterally decide that they didn't like to carry melee weapons just because they'd crossed the Rubicon.

 

Meanwhile over on the traitor side. CSM "unilaterally decide" they don't like anything anymore. (Including a lot of daemon engines.)

[JeffJedi]

If Reivers and Phobos Lts dont get power weapons, no one will.

[Dracos]

You boys are coming at this all wrong ;). It’s not what the Sternguard Sgts want … it’s what BuOps has decided is available for current mission roles according to BobbyG lol. 

[Xanthous]

7 hours ago, Tacitus said:

I doubt Sternguard Sergeants will get a melee weapon swap.  Primaris "Elite" sergeants usually don't - Aggressor Sgts dont, Infiltrators, Incursors, Reivers, Outriders, and such.  Even when they do - its pretty minor like a pistol here and there - BGV, Hellbalsters, and such. 

Primaris also tend not to have heavy weapons dispersed in units, so the Sternguard already have a precedent for being an outlier among Primaris wargear norms.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

3 hours ago, JayJapanB said:

 

Meanwhile over on the traitor side. CSM "unilaterally decide" they don't like anything anymore. (Including a lot of daemon engines.)

 

Yeah, there is that. Oof.

 

EDIT: I do have to point out again, though - the melee weapon bits are already there for inclusion on the datasheet. It's not quite like the CSM situation where we're talking all new kits and certain options going away because they didn't make the jump from the old kits. The Assault Intercessor squad has Primaris-sized versions of the Chainsword, Power Sword, Power Fist, and Thunder Hammer and the regular Intercessor Sergeant can take those despite not having any of those bits in the stock Intercessor kit. So it'd just be a question of retaining that option for the new datasheet, rather than also needing to have those bits in the new Sternguard kit. Of course, as-is the Sternguard Sergeant can't even take a Thunder Hammer but I could see him getting that option in exchange for losing the Power Axe, Power Maul, and Lightning Claw options... unless of course the new Vanguard Vets kit contains some or all of those (Claw in particular) and the Sternguard Sergeant is allowed to draw melee weapons from that kit as well.

Edited July 11, 2023 by Lord Nord

[Orange Knight]

I think the Intercessors retained those options because GW actually sells them in the various upgrade sprues for the different chapters.

 

The Sternguard have been streamlined into a shooting only unit - something they have always been in truth as melee weapon upgrades in the squad were historically expensive and inefficient. 

 

I can't guess what GW will be doing with the rumored jump pack unit. Will they be a replacement for the Assault Squad or the Vanguard, or both?

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

On a related front, I'll be interested to see if the Infernus Marines even get an MPK release this year.

 

It seems like such a kit would be a little bare-bones compared to the more recent Primaris releases - the Eliminator and Infiltrator MPK boxes in 2019 had different weapons options for the former (including a special weapon for the Sergeant) and a completely different squad build for the latter, along with different bits for the bolt rifle, different headgear, and different backpack toppers. In 2020, the Bladeguard got several interesting bits including the "wiping the sword" option, various ways to carry the shield, and two new pistol options for the Sergeant. Assault Intercessors got a raft of melee and ranged Sergeant weapons along with a few posing options for the squad, and Eradicators got the Heavy Melta Rifle and Multi-Melta bits. Heavy Intercessors got three different HBR variants along with three different Heavy Bolter variants, although the rules team has since swept in and combined all of those (same with the Melta Rifles).

 

But would there even be enough interesting spin on the Infernus squad to merit giving them an MPK box when the ETB squad is going to be all over the starter sets? About the only obvious addition would be a "Heavy Pyreblaster" bit. So maybe they wind up being another dual kit like the Infiltrators/Incursors since I can't see them going the Eliminators or Eradicators route of giving them a different weapon but keeping the same name. Unless they give them all the option of taking the Heavy Pyreblasters and the "specialist" option is a "Multi-Pyreblaster." Kind of doubt that...

 

Aside from allowing for replaceable shoulder pads, I'm not sure what else they could add to an Infernus Squad MPK. But maybe I'm overestimating how many models will be up on eBay or how many people will feel like springing for a starter set. For that matter, I could also be underestimating the number of squads players will want to field or how badly the average player wants to see different poses in his squads.

 

Maybe we'll know Saturday.

[Orion]

No idea, but it all feels a bit absurd that each special weapon gets their own squad, and each squad gets an etb and multipart set of sprues carved out.

 

...but it also wouldn't surprise me. 

[Karhedron]

3 hours ago, Lord Nord said:

But would there even be enough interesting spin on the Infernus squad to merit giving them an MPK box when the ETB squad is going to be all over the starter sets? About the only obvious addition would be a "Heavy Pyreblaster" bit. So maybe they wind up being another dual kit like the Infiltrators/Incursors since I can't see them going the Eliminators or Eradicators route of giving them a different weapon but keeping the same name.

 

Primaris now have dedicated Plasma, Melta and Flamer squads. The only weapon missing is Grav. It would be cool if the Infernus MPK came as a dual kit with Grav weapons to make a Gravitator squad (or some other silly name ).

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

1 hour ago, Karhedron said:

 

Primaris now have dedicated Plasma, Melta and Flamer squads. The only weapon missing is Grav. It would be cool if the Infernus MPK came as a dual kit with Grav weapons to make a Gravitator squad (or some other silly name ).

 

Gravitas Marines. Bank on it.

[Orion]

'Ators are the new Primaris Lieutenant. 

 

"Is it going to be warpspiders this reveal?!??....Noo, it's a Primasterbator squad"

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Gravis devastators packing portable las talons, along with another big hvy AT weapon option.

[Sea Creature]

5 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

Primaris now have dedicated Plasma, Melta and Flamer squads. The only weapon missing is Grav. It would be cool if the Infernus MPK came as a dual kit with Grav weapons to make a Gravitator squad (or some other silly name ).

They also have dedicated missiles.

[Tacitus]

10 hours ago, Lord Nord said:

On a related front, I'll be interested to see if the Infernus Marines even get an MPK release this year.

 

It seems like such a kit would be a little bare-bones compared to the more recent Primaris releases - the Eliminator and Infiltrator MPK boxes in 2019 had different weapons options for the former (including a special weapon for the Sergeant) and a completely different squad build for the latter, along with different bits for the bolt rifle, different headgear, and different backpack toppers. In 2020, the Bladeguard got several interesting bits including the "wiping the sword" option, various ways to carry the shield, and two new pistol options for the Sergeant. Assault Intercessors got a raft of melee and ranged Sergeant weapons along with a few posing options for the squad, and Eradicators got the Heavy Melta Rifle and Multi-Melta bits. Heavy Intercessors got three different HBR variants along with three different Heavy Bolter variants, although the rules team has since swept in and combined all of those (same with the Melta Rifles).

 

But would there even be enough interesting spin on the Infernus squad to merit giving them an MPK box when the ETB squad is going to be all over the starter sets? About the only obvious addition would be a "Heavy Pyreblaster" bit. So maybe they wind up being another dual kit like the Infiltrators/Incursors since I can't see them going the Eliminators or Eradicators route of giving them a different weapon but keeping the same name. Unless they give them all the option of taking the Heavy Pyreblasters and the "specialist" option is a "Multi-Pyreblaster." Kind of doubt that...

 

Aside from allowing for replaceable shoulder pads, I'm not sure what else they could add to an Infernus Squad MPK. But maybe I'm overestimating how many models will be up on eBay or how many people will feel like springing for a starter set. For that matter, I could also be underestimating the number of squads players will want to field or how badly the average player wants to see different poses in his squads.

 

Maybe we'll know Saturday.

Maybe Infernus Squads won't even get an MPK box  Maybe they were just a toss-in to the value box like Suppressors.  10 Man Flamer boys are unlikely to be popular unless the Elemental Flavor of the month is flamers - and they haven't done that in a while.  Flamer Aggressors would have told them all they need to know about 10 man flamer squads.   I suspect Infernus Squads are designed to fade away like Suppressors.

[Karhedron]

4 hours ago, Tacitus said:

Infernus Squads are designed to fade away like Suppressors.

 

I am not so sure. Infernus squads may be a one-trick pony but it is a pretty good trick. 10 in a Drop Pod cost just 250 points for 35-ish S5 hits against any target the opponent fails to screen properly. Anything up to T9 is likely to take a hefty beating from that and they can rinse and repeat if not dealt with. Also the risk of the Overwatch stratagem in the next movement phase means that the enemy will need to be careful, not just of charging, but even of getting into 12" range for Rapid Fire.

 

Speaking of stratagems, you can use a couple of nice combos.

• Storm of Fire for bumping the AP to -1 in the Devastator Doctrine is potentially very nasty.
• Squad Tactics allow you to move the squad in your opponent's movement phase, potentially catching your opponent out by Overwatching a unit they thought was safe.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

Yeah, I definitely don't think Infernus Squads will be fading away even if I do think they may end up as ETB-only. Unlike the Suppressors, which have been locked to that large Vanguard set and thus most Space Marine players who even have them probably wouldn't have more than one or two squads... the Infernus squads will be practically growing on trees by comparison. Just between the launch box and the starter sets, there'll be a hefty amount getting sold on eBay for cheap and that's before they show up in the successor to Imperium magazine. And just when you think they MIGHT actually be unavailable, GW could roll out a standalone box for the ETB kit if they sense there's even a nickel to be made. That's how they handled the Outriders (for now). They didn't have that option with the Suppressors because they went the mixed-sprue route, so their only choices were continuing to keep that Shadowspear complement of 17 models available as its own set or roll out an MPK squad which they apparently decided not to do... yet.

 

The ideal result probably would be a dual-build box. The Grav squad that Karhedron mentioned would be a good fit as I can't imagine a squad like that having a lot of extra options either, so the sprue space split between the two builds would be about right. Basically just one Grav Cannon "specialist" option and put Grav Rifles on the rest of the squad and you're good. There'd be a few alternate poses, but most of those could be shared with the Infernus boys by simply having them holding the weapon one-handed while pointing/stabbing/grenading with the other. You'd only need exclusive bits for the gun arms.

 

Plus we haven't seen a shared squad kit for Marines since the Infiltrators/Incursors. Do we really expect them to only use that trick once?
 

Edited July 13, 2023 by Lord Nord