Reserve limitations and getting around them

[Galron]

I played my first game tonight just to start getting a handle on the rules. The game went smoothly aside from looking rules up non-stop. Apparently the app is free currently, didnt know that.  Anyway, some new issues arose from discussions on other armies we all had, space marines. So my old tactic of using a storm raven as an upgunned drop pod are limited now. Can still do it but it eats up all the points with two dev squads which means my ironclad is walking. OK, problem fixed, Ill just start it on the board. My terminators and captain can still do the marine thing and drop in for an alpha...... wait. No they cant. Both of my marine armies use a block of 10 terminators as a bodyguard for the captain. Terminators are 410, a terminator captain is 95.  Its one of the most iconic units in the game since the game came out doing what marines do, teleport in and hope to cause enough havoc that they dont die next turn.

 

Is anyone actually acknowledging these ridiculous reserve restrictions or have figured out a way to get around them? I know you cant bring Beliel and his bodyguard anymore for the same silly points reasons. Aside from setting standard game sizes to 2001 points?

[Malakithe]

Yeah its pretty restrictive. I can barely put a Termie + Captain and a Thunderstrike in reserve. Definitely glad Drop pods dont obey any rules

Edited July 2, 2023 by Malakithe

[Tacitus]

Plus Reserves and Strategic Reserves are not the same thing to delineate the difference between Deep Strike, and Basic Unit Alpha that doesn't have a special rule.  Emphasis mine on the quotes below:

 

Quote

In the order stated below, both players now secretly note down: ■ Which of their Leader units will start the battle attached (they must specify which Leader unit is attached to which Bodyguard unit). ■ Which of their units will start the battle embarked within Transport models (they must specify which units are embarked within which models). ■ Which of their units will start the battle in Reserves (including Strategic Reserves).

 

Quote

These rules let you place units into Strategic Reserves – a special type of Reserves you can use to keep units off the battlefield until you require them. Note that while all Strategic Reserves units are also technically Reserves units, the reverse is not true, and so these rules do not apply to units that are using other rules that enable them to start the battle in Reserves (e.g. Deep Strike). Such units are instead set up as described by those other rules

 So your Deepstriking Terminators with Captain are in Reserves but not Strategic Reserves - and can arrive on turn 1 or later, while your 5 Terminators and a Captain with a Dread in the Stormraven is all in Strategic Reserves and likely crosses the cap and only arrive on turn 2 or later. 

[Galron]

Thanks for clearing that up Tacitus

[Malakithe]

3 hours ago, Tacitus said:

So your Deepstriking Terminators with Captain are in Reserves but not Strategic Reserves - and can arrive on turn 1 or later, while your 5 Terminators and a Captain with a Dread in the Stormraven is all in Strategic Reserves and likely crosses the cap and only arrive on turn 2 or later. 

Thats super confusing as those statements dont describe what they even mean. Which is which then? Ive yet to see something that references 'Strategic Reserves' just 'Reserves'

[Tacitus]

1 hour ago, Malakithe said:

Thats super confusing as those statements dont describe what they even mean. Which is which then? Ive yet to see something that references 'Strategic Reserves' just 'Reserves'

Strategic Reserves references Strategic Reserves.  If they have another ability that puts them in (plain) Reserves that is not Strategic Reserves.  Imagine Strategic Reserves is a pregame 0 CP Strat with a 500 (at 2,000) point cap.  

 

Or try it this way.  All thumbs are fingers, but not all fingers are thumbs.  All Strategic Reserves are Reserves, but not all Reserves are Strategic. 

 

The only things that become a strategic reserve are those who aren't using their own ability to get into reserves.   So a Terminator Squad using Deep Strike are (plain) reserves.  Terminators that want to use some sort of Outflanking on the opponent's table edge on Turn 3 are using Strategic Reserves. 

[Malakithe]

3 hours ago, Tacitus said:

Strategic Reserves references Strategic Reserves.  If they have another ability that puts them in (plain) Reserves that is not Strategic Reserves.  Imagine Strategic Reserves is a pregame 0 CP Strat with a 500 (at 2,000) point cap.  

 

Or try it this way.  All thumbs are fingers, but not all fingers are thumbs.  All Strategic Reserves are Reserves, but not all Reserves are Strategic. 

 

The only things that become a strategic reserve are those who aren't using their own ability to get into reserves.   So a Terminator Squad using Deep Strike are (plain) reserves.  Terminators that want to use some sort of Outflanking on the opponent's table edge on Turn 3 are using Strategic Reserves. 

Ahh so say Ints would be put into Strategic Reserve at the players choice cuz they dont have a special ability saying otherwise. Then they would pop on the boards edge minimum turn 2. Then Termies and my Thunderstrike, having Deep Strike, dont go against the 500pt rule and can pop in whenever.

[Dracos]

Lol yeah that’s not confusing even a little bit