Trying to plan a 2000 point build.

[Pureluck]

Alright, I’m for all intents and purposes brand new. Especially to Space Wolves. I have a unit of 10 grey hunters ordered to start off. I’ve been watching battle reports to try and catch up on some of the new rules.

 

 What I’m looking for is constructive criticism of this idea for almost a swarm type of army, that’s…I’m not going to say great on the wallet but I won’t have to take out a loan either to build. 
 

what I’m thinking is 2 units of 10 grey hunters. 2 units of 10-15 blood claws.

1 unit of 5 wolf guard terminators. 1 unit of long fangs with las cannons. 2 dreadnaughts one venerable and the other geared towards anti vehicle at range. Finally a wolf lord mounted on a storm wolf. This Friday I plan on purchasing the codex’s so I can play around with the points but what I found on the internet that should be just within 2000 points give or take some tweaking with the load outs. 
 

 The idea with this is to load the 2 units of blood claws on the drop pods. Use the grey hunters as fire support for infantry and light vehicles, long fangs and one dreadnaught to pick off the heavier targets. Round 2 (hopefully) drop in the blood claws and charge into the nearest units to tie up their range if not totally wreck a unit or two while everything else I have besides the long fangs move in to engage in close combat as well. 
 

 How feasible this is? I have no clue.. with my luck that would just get them mowed down but it’s an idea. Any suggestions, alterations? I’m all ears.

[CCE1981]

The Codex is obsolete!!!!!!

We all are on free tules at the moment.   You can buy the Basic Rulebook.  That is fine, but do not waste your money and buy the Codex.

[Valerian]

9 minutes ago, Pureluck said:

1.  Finally a wolf lord mounted on a storm wolf.

 

 

2.  This Friday I plan on purchasing the codex’s so I can play around with the points but what I found on the internet that should be just within 2000 points give or take some tweaking with the load outs. 
 

 

1.  Assume you're talking about a Thunderwolf?  The Stormwolf is a flyer.  Either way, the Wolf Lord needs to be attached to an appropriate unit, or he'll get shot off of the board.  Unless they have the Lone Operative ability you pretty much never want to leave a Character unattached to a unit.

 

2.  There are no codexes to buy yet, assuming you're going to be playing the 10th edition of the game.  All of the Indexes are available for free online.  The Space Wolves Index is here, and the Points for everything is here.

[Pureluck]

Doh! Although that would be cool to have a wolf lord standing on top of a stormwolf…. But yes, I meant Thunderwolf. So would be better to get a Wolf Lord in terminator armor and attach him to the Wolf guard then? 
 

thanks for the heads up about the Codex’s! I’ll check those links out! 

[Valerian]

Lots of ways to approach this, but Ragnar Blackmane is my preferred Wolf Lord, and he goes well with Blood Claws, Assault Intercessors, or Bladeguard Veterans.

 

If you prefer, though, a Wolf Lord in Terminator Armor attached to a unit of Wolf Guard Terminators is also very fitting, but I’d either wait for new multipose Terminators to kitbash, or modify the new Leviathan Terminators, like so many others are doing right now.  I wouldn’t buy our old small-scale Terminators at this point.

 

You don’t have to even run a Wolf Lord, if you prefer other characters.  Space Wolves and Space Marines have a couple dozen different character choices to pick from.  Even more when you add in all of our named characters. 

[Pureluck]

2 hours ago, Valerian said:

Lots of ways to approach this, but Ragnar Blackmane is my preferred Wolf Lord, and he goes well with Blood Claws, Assault Intercessors, or Bladeguard Veterans.

 

If you prefer, though, a Wolf Lord in Terminator Armor attached to a unit of Wolf Guard Terminators is also very fitting, but I’d either wait for new multipose Terminators to kitbash, or modify the new Leviathan Terminators, like so many others are doing right now.  I wouldn’t buy our old small-scale Terminators at this point.

 

You don’t have to even run a Wolf Lord, if you prefer other characters.  Space Wolves and Space Marines have a couple dozen different character choices to pick from.  Even more when you add in all of our named characters. 

 

 So after looking at the proper points, I found I was way off… by about 600 or so which is great because that gives me more room for more stuff. 
 

so I heard Lukas the Trickster is great with blood claws so I added that to my list and he’ll be in my drop team, but If you think Blackmane would be better, that would be an easy swap without hurting my feelings. He’s cheap on points. The next I put Arjac Rockfist and he’ll be leading my terminators. Honestly, I just like how his model looks and I glanced at his history and he seems to have as much hatred for tyranids as I do. 
 

here is where I’m getting stuck. this army is now at 1660 points built up this way. I’m thinking either going land raider crusader, or storm wolf, piling the terminators and Arjac in one of those and if the rules allow, having them come in as the two drop pods unleash the blood claws. Either way, that will bring my points up to 1915, give me a bit more fire support for the one or two rounds that it might live but most importantly, bringing the terminators to the front lines. Do I go this route, and use the extra points with another named character like either/or blackmane and Luca, giving them both the blood claws. Or with this composition do you have any suggestions on what to do with these points?
 

 Honestly the only reason I’m hesitant about a landraider or a storm wolf… they aren’t exactly easy on the wallet. I’d be more tempted to go the storm wolf route because I can at least come in on the second round and drop off the terminators before it gets blown out of the sky.

 

although if I went with the Stormwolf… I would effectively have a very Air Assault force here with the whole quick reaction force drop pods.

 

 Really though strategically, I’m thinking with this build, vehicles or large monsters could be a problem. It’s depending on the long fangs with las cannons sniping at the biggest machine, the drednaught with missiles and las canon peppering it, and if that can’t finish it off then the storm wolf finishing it as it swoops in to unload the wolf guard. 
 

im planning on the grey hunters to have 2 melta guns each, I’m hoping to get wolf guard terminators with thunder hammers and shields, though claws would work too. Then a venerable dreadnaught with hammer and shield. So theoretically most of my force will have anti-vehicle options. But this build is heavily relying on making full use of Space Wolves abilities of charging into close combat in key positions, either to decimate the opponents long range options or taking key areas for points. 
 

 Weaknesses I’m seeing is most of my force are regular space marines,  it’s a very light infantry detachment that relies on aggressive tactics… so could be a bit squishy.

 

plus side…. Drop pods coming down and opening up to 10 very eager young wolves each followed by a ship off loading very angry terminators does make a heck of a mental image and I can imagine would be pretty intimidating for opponents that rely on range. 
 

 I don’t know, there’s no perfect army. Just something I’m wondering if it’s worth trying or if it will get slaughtered in round 2. If I can make it work for 3 rounds at least then I say its worth doing and a viable battalion. 

Edited July 5, 2023 by Pureluck

[Karhedron]

Putting Blood Claws in a Drop Pod is possibly not the best option. This is because units have to deploy at least 9" away from the enemy when they come in from Reserves, even when disembarking from a Drop Pod. Charges are made using 2D6 which means your chances of making a sucessful charge out of a Drop Pod is only 28%. This means if you have 2 Pods full of Blood Claws, you will on average only get one squad into melee half of them time. The rest of the time they will be left standing there waiting to get shot up. Also, Blood Claws are 10-15 in a unit and a Drop Pod can only carry 10 models which means you cannot add a Leader to a squad in a Pod.

 

Drop Pods do not make great delivery vehicles for melee units. Their best use is to deliver short-ranged shooting squads so thye can jump out and unleash their firepower on the turn they land. The Primaris range has several units that can make good use of this ability including Hellblasters as well as the new Infernus and Sternguard squads.

 

Blood Claws work much better in a Land Raider Crusader or Stormwolf. This is because both units have rules that help their passengers get into melee quickly andhave room to add a Leader to give them additional buffs.

 

Terminators need a vehicle less than other squads as they Teleport into battle or use the Teleport Homer. Given their firepower, having them on the table early can be useful.

[Pureluck]

35 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

Putting Blood Claws in a Drop Pod is possibly not the best option. This is because units have to deploy at least 9" away from the enemy when they come in from Reserves, even when disembarking from a Drop Pod. Charges are made using 2D6 which means your chances of making a sucessful charge out of a Drop Pod is only 28%. This means if you have 2 Pods full of Blood Claws, you will on average only get one squad into melee half of them time. The rest of the time they will be left standing there waiting to get shot up. Also, Blood Claws are 10-15 in a unit and a Drop Pod can only carry 10 models which means you cannot add a Leader to a squad in a Pod.

 

Drop Pods do not make great delivery vehicles for melee units. Their best use is to deliver short-ranged shooting squads so thye can jump out and unleash their firepower on the turn they land. The Primaris range has several units that can make good use of this ability including Hellblasters as well as the new Infernus and Sternguard squads.

 

Blood Claws work much better in a Land Raider Crusader or Stormwolf. This is because both units have rules that help their passengers get into melee quickly andhave room to add a Leader to give them additional buffs.

 

Terminators need a vehicle less than other squads as they Teleport into battle or use the Teleport Homer. Given their firepower, having them on the table early can be useful.

 I thought Space Wolves specifically hated using teleporters “feet firmly on the ground” so to speak. Ok, so going by what you are saying, ditch the drop pods, and if possible run with two storm wolves if I can spare the points if I want to quickly insert blood claws into battle. I mean that would give me more fire power. Let me run the numbers on that, I may need to drop a leader for that to work. 
 

Ok running with

X2 squads of 10 grey hunters

X2 squads of 10 Blood Claws

X1 venerable Dreadnaught (hammer  and shield.)

X1 Dreadnaught (missiles and las cannons.

X2 Stormwolves

X1 squad of 5 terminator wolf guard

X1 squad of 5 long fangs with las cannons.

Arjac leading the wolf guard terminators.

Blackmane in one squad of blood claws.

Lucas in the other squad of blood claws 

 

If I added this up all right, that’s 1980 points. So very doable. 

Edited July 5, 2023 by Pureluck

[Karhedron]

That looks more promising. Is there any particular reason for avoiding Primaris units (apart from Ragnar)? Not saying that you need them, just curious.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

The whole feet firmly on the ground, no teleprters stuff was old (and imho, bad) lore, it has been out for some time. 

[Pureluck]

5 hours ago, Karhedron said:

That looks more promising. Is there any particular reason for avoiding Primaris units (apart from Ragnar)? Not saying that you need them, just curious.

Well there’s a few. The first being… I don’t know very much about them and for the space wolves I don’t know what special rules I need to follow, what Primaris units are allowed, etc. they look kinda cool but I haven’t played in over 20 years or so, I’m playing catch up with the new rules, units, and lore so I’m trying to keep it simple so I can jump back in

 

 The second reason; watching battle reports where they are utilized they seem to be in this weird middle ground. Tougher than a regular space marine but not as tough as terminators. What I’m going for is a massive swarm of space marines that can get in quick. Primaris would be a unit I wouldn’t really know what to do with. If I was building up a 3000 point army then I would definitely include a few units but even back in the early 2000’s I didn’t see too many 3000 point battles, if at all.

 

when I did play, granted I didn’t have a firm grasp on tactics but I was always wanting to hunker down and just blast away with bolters. I played kinda a generic space marine chapter (long story on that but I screwed up not really understanding the lore at the time) but I usually got my posterior handed to me, so I’m trying to get units that force me to play way more aggressively, getting into close combat as fast as possible and overwhelm by shear mass of attacks. 

[Valerian]

38 minutes ago, Pureluck said:

 I don’t know very much about them and for the space wolves I don’t know what special rules I need to follow, what Primaris units are allowed, etc. they look kinda cool but I haven’t played in over 20 years or so, I’m playing catch up with the new rules, units, and lore so I’m trying to keep it simple so I can jump back in

 

There are no special rules to worry about.  You get the Faction ability (Oath of Moment) and a Detachment ability (Chapter Tactics if you take the Gladius Task Force detachment or Sagas if you take the Champions of Russ detachment).  All other abilities are on the datasheets for the units themselves and they're the same for all Space Marine factions that take those units.

 

All Primaris units are allowed.  Detachments, however, may limit them.  For example, the Champions of Russ detachment restricts you from taking several Space Marine units, however with Gladius Task Force detachment all Adeptus Astartes keyword and/or Space Wolves keyword units are allowed.

 

 

[Valerian]

10 hours ago, Pureluck said:

 I thought Space Wolves specifically hated using teleporters “feet firmly on the ground” so to speak.

 

That was something that Jervis Johnson put in the 3rd edition Space Wolves codex supplement to offset the advantages that Space Wolves at that time got over generic Space Marines.  He talked about it in a White Dwarf article that came out in conjunction with the supplement.  It hasn't been canon in decades.

[Pureluck]

3 hours ago, Valerian said:

 

There are no special rules to worry about.  You get the Faction ability (Oath of Moment) and a Detachment ability (Chapter Tactics if you take the Gladius Task Force detachment or Sagas if you take the Champions of Russ detachment).  All other abilities are on the datasheets for the units themselves and they're the same for all Space Marine factions that take those units.

 

All Primaris units are allowed.  Detachments, however, may limit them.  For example, the Champions of Russ detachment restricts you from taking several Space Marine units, however with Gladius Task Force detachment all Adeptus Astartes keyword and/or Space Wolves keyword units are allowed.

 

 

It may be something I’ll look into in the future, unless you or someone else says my gray hunters or blood claws will be wiped out in turn two without them (although I do suspect that half the blood claws will be wiped out, they are merely the distraction to get everything else into arms length distance.) Then I suppose I could replace a squad of grey wolves for them. 

 So another tactic question. Is it best to hold the storm wolves in reserve so they aren’t targeted or have them in hover mode as far back in my deployment zone as possible? One thing I noticed when I did have a land raider, that thing was always targeted as soon as possible, I’m seeing that hasn’t changed. Basically I want the best chance possible to unload the blood claws and the characters, if they get taken out after that then so be it, that’s just how it goes. 
 

would definitely like them to swoop in at the same time so that way the opponent has a choice to make, either concentrate fire on one leaving the other untouched or split fire on the both. 

[Karhedron]

47 minutes ago, Pureluck said:

 So another tactic question. Is it best to hold the storm wolves in reserve so they aren’t targeted or have them in hover mode as far back in my deployment zone as possible? One thing I noticed when I did have a land raider, that thing was always targeted as soon as possible, I’m seeing that hasn’t changed. Basically I want the best chance possible to unload the blood claws and the characters, if they get taken out after that then so be it, that’s just how it goes. 

 

It is a tough choice. The problem with coming in from Reserves is that you cannot enter the battelfield until Turn 2 which means it will be Turn 3 before anything can disembark in a useful place. In Hover Mode, it basically behaves like a flying Land Raider with more speed and maneuverability but less durability.

 

Land Raiders are still likely to be fire magnets but the increased toughness and reduced AP in 10th edition means they should last a little longer. If one does get targetted, consider using the Smoke or Armour of Contempt stratagems (or both) to help it withstand the pounding.

[Pureluck]

22 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

It is a tough choice. The problem with coming in from Reserves is that you cannot enter the battelfield until Turn 2 which means it will be Turn 3 before anything can disembark in a useful place. In Hover Mode, it basically behaves like a flying Land Raider with more speed and maneuverability but less durability.

 

Land Raiders are still likely to be fire magnets but the increased toughness and reduced AP in 10th edition means they should last a little longer. If one does get targetted, consider using the Smoke or Armour of Contempt stratagems (or both) to help it withstand the pounding.

Oh decisions decisions, either go air assault route with storm wolves or mechanized infantry with land raiders…. Hmmmm

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

I've started my Stormwolf on the board my fist 2 games and it has done ok hasn't died until turn 4 in one game and never died the other (that was nids and once i cleared his melee anti tank the rest was pretty chippy). The increase in vehicle toughness really is pretty effective 

[Pureluck]

1 hour ago, Rune Priest Jbickb said:

I've started my Stormwolf on the board my fist 2 games and it has done ok hasn't died until turn 4 in one game and never died the other (that was nids and once i cleared his melee anti tank the rest was pretty chippy). The increase in vehicle toughness really is pretty effective 

I’d actually be pretty happy if it survives 4 turns. That’s worth the investment in points. I’m leaning more towards Stormwolf, everything I’m hearing about it is that it’s actually a pretty excellent transport that doubles as a pretty decent anti-tank gunship. Depending on what my money situation is looking like within the next few days I’ll see if I can nab a couple of those and maybe even Arjac and Lucas. Blackmane is pretty common to find, blood claws and grey hunters are all over eBay (which is where I got my first squad of grey hunters) there will always be dreadnaughts and I’m not TOO picky about those although I do like the looks of the new ones. Strangely the toughest for me to get is 4 las cannons hate to have the same model represent all 4 in the same squad. 
 

[Karhedron]

One alternative to Grey Hunters is Wolf Guard in power armour. For 18 points, you can get a Grey Hunter with a Bolter and Chainsword. For 19 points you can get a Wolf Guard with a Storm Bolter and Hierloom weapon. They work very similarly but the Wolf Guard gets twice the firepower of the Hunter and +1S and +1A in melee. You can sprinkle a couple of Storm Shields in the Wolf Guard for a 4++ to tank heavy weapon hits. The Wolf Guard also get +1 to Hit while they have a Character leading the unit.

 

The Wolf Guard cannot take the 2 special weapons or a Power Fist on the pack Leader but frankly that is a small price to pay. Ragnar will fit in really well here and will more than make up for the hitting power of a Pack Leader. Even a simple Lieutenant will greatly increase the hitting power of the squad by adding Lethal Hits to all those attacks. 

 

[Pureluck]

2 hours ago, Karhedron said:

One alternative to Grey Hunters is Wolf Guard in power armour. For 18 points, you can get a Grey Hunter with a Bolter and Chainsword. For 19 points you can get a Wolf Guard with a Storm Bolter and Hierloom weapon. They work very similarly but the Wolf Guard gets twice the firepower of the Hunter and +1S and +1A in melee. You can sprinkle a couple of Storm Shields in the Wolf Guard for a 4++ to tank heavy weapon hits. The Wolf Guard also get +1 to Hit while they have a Character leading the unit.

 

The Wolf Guard cannot take the 2 special weapons or a Power Fist on the pack Leader but frankly that is a small price to pay. Ragnar will fit in really well here and will more than make up for the hitting power of a Pack Leader. Even a simple Lieutenant will greatly increase the hitting power of the squad by adding Lethal Hits to all those attacks. 

 

That’s actually a pretty tempting idea. I may actually look into that. 

[Kallas]

3 hours ago, Karhedron said:

Ragnar will fit in really well here and will more than make up for the hitting power of a Pack Leader. Even a simple Lieutenant will greatly increase the hitting power of the squad by adding Lethal Hits to all those attacks.

Chuck a Chaplain/Wolf Priest on the Wolf Guard and they'll hit reasonably hard in melee too.

Or put a Librarian/Rune Priest in there for a 4++ for the unit, so they're tankier.

[Karhedron]

All solid suggestions. I quite the Rune Priest as the 4++ means you don't need Storm Shields and he can contribute quite nicely in both melee and shooting.

Wolf Priest is +1 to Wound which is pretty tasty with all those attacks. Good for when they want to pretend to be Blood Angels. 

[Pureluck]

3 hours ago, Karhedron said:

All solid suggestions. I quite the Rune Priest as the 4++ means you don't need Storm Shields and he can contribute quite nicely in both melee and shooting.

Wolf Priest is +1 to Wound which is pretty tasty with all those attacks. Good for when they want to pretend to be Blood Angels. 

Yea, I’m actually leaning towards this route. This does mean though I may have to get rid of a character. Unless there’s something I’m missing and they don’t count as HQ units somehow. Either way, it’s the points that would be an issue. 
 

 Flavor wise I’d like to keep Arjac as the wolf Lord being accompanied by a squad of Terminator Wolf guard. So it would either have to be Blackmane or Lucas that would have to go. 

[Karhedron]

I think it is definitely worth trying to add a Leader to the Wolf Guard for 2 reasons.

1. Wolf Guard have more attacks to benefit from whatever buffs the Leader provides
2. Wolf Guard have their own special rule meaning they get +1 to Hit on all attacks while they have a Character leading them

This double-dipping makes them very strong

[Pureluck]

On 7/7/2023 at 2:19 AM, Karhedron said:

I think it is definitely worth trying to add a Leader to the Wolf Guard for 2 reasons.

1. Wolf Guard have more attacks to benefit from whatever buffs the Leader provides
2. Wolf Guard have their own special rule meaning they get +1 to Hit on all attacks while they have a Character leading them

This double-dipping makes them very strong

Ohhhh I gotcha! Ok, I’ll rework out the points and shuffle some things around see how I can make this work points wise.