Trying to plan a 2000 point build.

[Pureluck]

Ok, so after a few days of planning, reworking some stuff around and wanting to stick to the super aggressive theme while still having some fire support, here’s what I’m building towards so far. 
 

1 unit of 15 blood claws lead by Lukas (with pelt of balewolf)

1 unit of 10 grey hunters.

1 unit of 10 wolf guard in power armor with a Rune priest.

1 unit of 6 long fangs either all plasma cannons or las cannons.

1 unit of 10 wolf guard in terminator armor all equipped with thunder hammers and storm shields lead by Arjac

1 storm wolf for extra fire support and to get the blood claws in as close as possible. 
 

and 2 venerable dreadnaughts. 
 

 That’s 1990 points 

Edited July 16, 2023 by Pureluck

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Looks like it should be fun to take for a spin.

 

Just a note Epic Heros cannot be given enhancements, so no pelt for Lukas. Its a mistake i was making early on too. 

[Pureluck]

7 hours ago, Rune Priest Jbickb said:

Looks like it should be fun to take for a spin.

 

Just a note Epic Heros cannot be given enhancements, so no pelt for Lukas. Its a mistake i was making early on too. 

Oh gotcha! Yea that one I didn’t know, so I got 20 extra points, so I might give something to the rune priest. 

[Starlight_Wolf]

14 hours ago, Pureluck said:

Oh gotcha! Yea that one I didn’t know, so I got 20 extra points, so I might give something to the rune priest. 

 

Possibly worth going with the Wolf Tail Talisman for the damage debuff (nice for stopping Snipers taking him out, or at least slowing them down) or a Frost Weapon depending on his and the Squad's role in your battleplan

[Pureluck]

1 hour ago, Starlight_Wolf said:

 

Possibly worth going with the Wolf Tail Talisman for the damage debuff (nice for stopping Snipers taking him out, or at least slowing them down) or a Frost Weapon depending on his and the Squad's role in your battleplan

Thinking having them and the grey hunters pushing up center and providing some extra fire support for one of the dreadnoughts and the terminators. 
 

 Playing around with the idea of splitting the terminators into two squads and possibly having one of them teleport in while the other pushes up, really depends. I know my friend wants to do a 2100 or higher point elimination battle and he plays necrons so I’ll most likely split the terminators then and make sure  I have my troops spread out in a way he can’t concentrate heavy fire into one unit and will be forced to make hard decisions on who to target. 
 

 So for that will definitely be going with wolf tail talisman and focus on getting everything into close combat as soon as possible. 

[Karhedron]

One nice combo to consider if you are running the SW detachment is the Black Death enhancement. This gives the bearer's melee weapon Anti-Monster 4+ and Anti-Vehicle 4+. Now if you apply that buff to a weapon that already has Devastating Wounds (e.g. Thunder Hammer, Judiciar's swords etc) then you will be dishing out Mortal Wounds to vehicles and Monsters on a 4+ in melee which is pretty tasty (especially good for spoiling the day of Daemons etc who have Invulnerable saves as well.

 

Vehicles and Monsters are a lot less vulnerable to melee in 10th than they were in 8th/9th due to boosted toughness and the changes to shooting rules. This enhancement is a nice way to remind big targets that the Sons of Russ are not to be trifled with in close combat, no matter how tough they are. The bigger they are, the harder they fall!

[Starlight_Wolf]

1 hour ago, Pureluck said:

Thinking having them and the grey hunters pushing up center and providing some extra fire support for one of the dreadnoughts and the terminators. 
 

 Playing around with the idea of splitting the terminators into two squads and possibly having one of them teleport in while the other pushes up, really depends. I know my friend wants to do a 2100 or higher point elimination battle and he plays necrons so I’ll most likely split the terminators then and make sure  I have my troops spread out in a way he can’t concentrate heavy fire into one unit and will be forced to make hard decisions on who to target. 
 

 So for that will definitely be going with wolf tail talisman and focus on getting everything into close combat as soon as possible. 

 

That makes a lot of sense, my 2, 2k list are based around the same sort of thinking, one goes Phobos heavy, uses the scout move to apply pressure, and grab objectives early, with BGV and Assault Intercessors  serving as a deterrent to charges/aggressive push into enemy territory while a WG Terminator pack and Wolf Lord drop in the back, to try to trigger Majesty/be a massive pain in his back line. The second follows the same principle but features jump packs and outriders in place of the Phobos marines and both have a back line of Regular Intercessors, Long Fangs w/LCs and the Ballistus.

 

Running into Necrons, I agree with the splitting the units, give them multiple threats so they can't focus a unit down and do your best to make sure what you hit stays down. Haven't kept fully up to date with other army rules, but snipers scouts/ Eliminators might not hurt if he's using characters to buff their regen abilities

[Pureluck]

3 hours ago, Karhedron said:

One nice combo to consider if you are running the SW detachment is the Black Death enhancement. This gives the bearer's melee weapon Anti-Monster 4+ and Anti-Vehicle 4+. Now if you apply that buff to a weapon that already has Devastating Wounds (e.g. Thunder Hammer, Judiciar's swords etc) then you will be dishing out Mortal Wounds to vehicles and Monsters on a 4+ in melee which is pretty tasty (especially good for spoiling the day of Daemons etc who have Invulnerable saves as well.

 

Vehicles and Monsters are a lot less vulnerable to melee in 10th than they were in 8th/9th due to boosted toughness and the changes to shooting rules. This enhancement is a nice way to remind big targets that the Sons of Russ are not to be trifled with in close combat, no matter how tough they are. The bigger they are, the harder they fall!

Oh crap! That is something to consider, I overlooked that one for sure and unless I’m missing something that can be applied to any one space marine, correct? There are quite a few players where I go that like to use chaos and tyranids.

 

3 hours ago, Starlight_Wolf said:

 

That makes a lot of sense, my 2, 2k list are based around the same sort of thinking, one goes Phobos heavy, uses the scout move to apply pressure, and grab objectives early, with BGV and Assault Intercessors  serving as a deterrent to charges/aggressive push into enemy territory while a WG Terminator pack and Wolf Lord drop in the back, to try to trigger Majesty/be a massive pain in his back line. The second follows the same principle but features jump packs and outriders in place of the Phobos marines and both have a back line of Regular Intercessors, Long Fangs w/LCs and the Ballistus.

 

Running into Necrons, I agree with the splitting the units, give them multiple threats so they can't focus a unit down and do your best to make sure what you hit stays down. Haven't kept fully up to date with other army rules, but snipers scouts/ Eliminators might not hurt if he's using characters to buff their regen abilities

 

Yea, I was strongly thinking about scout snipers. What I’m hoping to do with this type of setup, is to run the stormwolf filled with blood claws as well as Lukas up, open up a volley on something that my long fangs as well as my ballista’s venerable dreadnought can hit, assuming line of site. 
 

from what I can find, it looks like the blood claws can disembark while the storm wolf is still in fly mode, correct? If so I’m hoping to run those blood claws straight into the nearest unit that poses the most significant long range threat, then having a squad of 5 terminators and possibly Arjac my wolf lord teleport In on the other side , my venerable dreadnought with the multi melta and close combat claw would move in to support the blood claws while the ballista’s rain down hell and everything else push up the center with long fangs laying down some hate as well

 

he did state that he specifically went with Necrons because of the regen ability so I have no doubt he’ll have units to reinforce that. He is a big fan of scarabs and I know his warlord will have that regen orb so I know he will have to be a primary target. 
 

 To my understanding Necrons doesn’t have too many units that’s all that great in close combat so I’m hoping to close the distance pretty quick before I take on too many casualties and finally bring all but my ballista venerable dreadnought, the storm wolf, and my long fangs into hand to hand. 
 

from what I read, plasma cannons work really well on Necrons so I’m going to try to find and purchase all plasma cannon long fangs. 

[Karhedron]

16 minutes ago, Pureluck said:

from what I can find, it looks like the blood claws can disembark while the storm wolf is still in fly mode, correct?

 

Yes, that is correct. Vehicles like the Stormwolf can no longer switch from Fly to Hover mode mid-game, you have to pick your mode before the battle and stick with it.

 

Just remember that if you are in Fly Mode, you have to start the game in Reserves which means the earliest you can come on the board in Turn 2 and likely actually deploying them on Turn 3. You may be better off using Hover mode so you can start on the board, use tall terrain for cover and still move 20". That should give you an extra turn of shooting and get your Blood Claws into combat on T2 at the latest.

[Pureluck]

Oh gotcha! And how does the teleportation deep strike work? Again, from what I’m seeing is that you put the unit in reserves, mark where they are going to drop in at (I’m guessing command phase), has to be 9 inches away from opposing units, and then they come in on the next turn?

 

 Also is the opposing units allowed to cross in on those 9 inches or are they forced to avoid that space entirely? 

[yan]

2 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

Yes, that is correct. Vehicles like the Stormwolf can no longer switch from Fly to Hover mode mid-game, you have to pick your mode before the battle and stick with it.

 

Just remember that if you are in Fly Mode, you have to start the game in Reserves which means the earliest you can come on the board in Turn 2 and likely actually deploying them on Turn 3. You may be better off using Hover mode so you can start on the board, use tall terrain for cover and still move 20". That should give you an extra turn of shooting and get your Blood Claws into combat on T2 at the latest.

 

Rapid Ingress can help you here.

Start in reserve, at the end of your opponent movement phase of turn two you bring in your flyer just out of range/sight for his guns. your turn you can move, shoot, disembark etc.

[Apokalypsi]

21 minutes ago, Pureluck said:

Oh gotcha! And how does the teleportation deep strike work? Again, from what I’m seeing is that you put the unit in reserves, mark where they are going to drop in at (I’m guessing command phase), has to be 9 inches away from opposing units, and then they come in on the next turn?

 

 Also is the opposing units allowed to cross in on those 9 inches or are they forced to avoid that space entirely? 

For normal deep strike, you just pick a spot on your turn 2 or later that's more than 9" away from enemies. The Teleport Homer ability of generic Termies acts similar to what you're stating. Opposing units can always come within 9" of a teleport homer token. Teleport Homer just saves you the CP for Rapid Ingress is all.

[Pureluck]

2 hours ago, yan said:

 

Rapid Ingress can help you here.

Start in reserve, at the end of your opponent movement phase of turn two you bring in your flyer just out of range/sight for his guns. your turn you can move, shoot, disembark etc.

There’s something to think about, I think what will really determine this is what terrain is available and how it’s set up. 

 

2 hours ago, Apokalypsi said:

For normal deep strike, you just pick a spot on your turn 2 or later that's more than 9" away from enemies. The Teleport Homer ability of generic Termies acts similar to what you're stating. Opposing units can always come within 9" of a teleport homer token. Teleport Homer just saves you the CP for Rapid Ingress is all.

Oh, gotcha! So about turn 3 is when they would pop in unless there’s a rapid ingress type rule for teleportation as well?

 

also, as mentioned. The place I go to seems to have plenty of Tyranid players as well. One having a 1500 point army consisting of old one eye, and a couple of other big bulbous ones acting as heavy support (forgot what those ones were called) didn’t see a zonethroap but he wasn’t finished with it either, I know tyranids can give space marines a run for their money in close combat and usual strategy is to try to eradicate them with range combat before they get too close. 
 

is that strategy still the same with Space Wolves? Try to take out their heavy hitters first with range and go for the weaker ones in close combat? 
 

[Karhedron]

12 hours ago, yan said:

Rapid Ingress can help you here.

Start in reserve, at the end of your opponent movement phase of turn two you bring in your flyer just out of range/sight for his guns. your turn you can move, shoot, disembark etc.

 

That is a good catch, I hadn't spotted that. Thanks.

[Starlight_Wolf]

11 hours ago, Pureluck said:

is that strategy still the same with Space Wolves? Try to take out their heavy hitters first with range and go for the weaker ones in close combat? 
 

 

I'd say play the objectives and hope for it not be a killy mission. My experience with Nids is limited to swarm lists (lots of little bugs, backed by the odd big bug), but from what I've seen, prioritise targets that can challenge you holding objectives and if something big comes your way Oath of Moment it and throw your big guns at it. For the weaker bugs, you can try and CC them to death but they will pretty much always have numbers on side, so liberal application of bolters/flamers won't hurt to soften them up first (also remember your pistols since we can use them in the shooting phase while in engagement range again). Off the top of my head Marines don't have great answers to big monsters in combat (besides some characters, or throwing a big squad at one and tarpitting it to neutralise it for a time) So bring your heavy weapons and throw those into them before they get to you if possible.

 

The game is more about point scoring and objectives than straight up killing these days, so if you can get a decent advantage early, even if you get murdered by the big stuff you may pull out the win. That said, if you are doing poorly, remember your gambits (basically be Lukas back in 5th and laugh in the face of death as the stasis bomb triggers ;) )

[Pureluck]

14 hours ago, Starlight_Wolf said:

 

I'd say play the objectives and hope for it not be a killy mission. My experience with Nids is limited to swarm lists (lots of little bugs, backed by the odd big bug), but from what I've seen, prioritise targets that can challenge you holding objectives and if something big comes your way Oath of Moment it and throw your big guns at it. For the weaker bugs, you can try and CC them to death but they will pretty much always have numbers on side, so liberal application of bolters/flamers won't hurt to soften them up first (also remember your pistols since we can use them in the shooting phase while in engagement range again). Off the top of my head Marines don't have great answers to big monsters in combat (besides some characters, or throwing a big squad at one and tarpitting it to neutralise it for a time) So bring your heavy weapons and throw those into them before they get to you if possible.

 

The game is more about point scoring and objectives than straight up killing these days, so if you can get a decent advantage early, even if you get murdered by the big stuff you may pull out the win. That said, if you are doing poorly, remember your gambits (basically be Lukas back in 5th and laugh in the face of death as the stasis bomb triggers ;) )

Ah, so not much has changed as far as that goes. Last time I played was back during 4th-5th addition and I was playing generic space marines against tyranids. I barely won having finally eradicated his last unit of gene stealers with holy bolt fire…. I had 3 tactical marines left and a disabled land raider out of 2500 points… 

 

ok see, I was really confused how Lukas’ last laugh works thematically speaking, Only reason I was really going with him was because of his cloak, and he’s a cheap character that I can cram into 2000 points. So I read up his wiki…. HOLY CRAP!!! He might actually be my favorite character…then the fact he has a freaking grenade wired up as a deadman’s switch…. That’s just epic….

[Starlight_Wolf]

7 hours ago, Pureluck said:

Ah, so not much has changed as far as that goes. Last time I played was back during 4th-5th addition and I was playing generic space marines against tyranids. I barely won having finally eradicated his last unit of gene stealers with holy bolt fire…. I had 3 tactical marines left and a disabled land raider out of 2500 points… 

 

ok see, I was really confused how Lukas’ last laugh works thematically speaking, Only reason I was really going with him was because of his cloak, and he’s a cheap character that I can cram into 2000 points. So I read up his wiki…. HOLY CRAP!!! He might actually be my favorite character…then the fact he has a freaking grenade wired up as a deadman’s switch…. That’s just epic….

 

I last played against nids in 7th at the height of the flyer issue and had much the same issue, prior to that was the 'on from any board edge rending Genestealers (back when I was really new and had a lot of 'Gotcha' moments, Doom of Malantai being another very painful one). The entire time (much as the Bloodclaw in me hates it) it's been my experience that it is better to play a more ranged game against nids, unless you could run enough high strength weapons into them in melee to ensure a swift take down.

 

That does make Grey Hunters and Intercessors pretty solid (given Fall back and shoot and sticky objectives respectively) allowing you to kite the bugs where possible. Like I say I'm not up to date with how they currently work, but was looking at running the army last edition so take whats said with a pinch of Salt.

 

As for Lukas, yeah he's insane :D taking a thunderhawk for a joy ride, insulting Wolf Lords to their face and being as much a pain to friend as foe. Definitely a solid depiction of what Blood claws can be, haven't played him yet as I never ran Bloodclaws (though that may well change once I get a Crusader to put them in ;) ) 

 

[Pureluck]

6 hours ago, Starlight_Wolf said:

 

I last played against nids in 7th at the height of the flyer issue and had much the same issue, prior to that was the 'on from any board edge rending Genestealers (back when I was really new and had a lot of 'Gotcha' moments, Doom of Malantai being another very painful one). The entire time (much as the Bloodclaw in me hates it) it's been my experience that it is better to play a more ranged game against nids, unless you could run enough high strength weapons into them in melee to ensure a swift take down.

 

That does make Grey Hunters and Intercessors pretty solid (given Fall back and shoot and sticky objectives respectively) allowing you to kite the bugs where possible. Like I say I'm not up to date with how they currently work, but was looking at running the army last edition so take whats said with a pinch of Salt.

 

As for Lukas, yeah he's insane :D taking a thunderhawk for a joy ride, insulting Wolf Lords to their face and being as much a pain to friend as foe. Definitely a solid depiction of what Blood claws can be, haven't played him yet as I never ran Bloodclaws (though that may well change once I get a Crusader to put them in ;) ) 

 

Even from watching battle reports on YouTube, tyranids seem to be a major pain for Space marines still. I think part of me was kinda hoping that space wolves had enough of an edge in close combat they would be able to put up a bit more of a fight in close combat. This type of scenario might be best to combine the two units of terminators with ss and thunder hammers to try and wade through and cause as much damage as possible. At least they would have to go through 40 wounds before getting to Arjac at that point. 
 

Honestly, what I’m finding surprisingly hard is finding the Long Fangs that I want. Im looking for a whole squad of plasma cannons or las cannons finding any is proving difficult.

 

what I have so far are my blood claws, grey hunters, wolf guard in power armor, 5 terminator wolf guard with hammer and shield, two venerable dreadnoughts, arjac and Lukas

 

still need to get the storm wolf, rune priest, 5 more terminators with hammer and shield, and long fangs. 

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

The secret to building long fangs, at least in my experience, is 2 boxes of Devastators and 1 space wolves infantry box then kitbash to your hearts content. 

[Pureluck]

9 hours ago, Rune Priest Jbickb said:

The secret to building long fangs, at least in my experience, is 2 boxes of Devastators and 1 space wolves infantry box then kitbash to your hearts content. 

I was afraid of that, seems the actual long fang boxes are out of production and the devastator boxes only has 2 of each weapon. 
 

so may end up doing 4 las canons and 1 rocket launcher and the other box 4 plasma and 1 heavy Bolter. 

[Starlight_Wolf]

7 hours ago, Pureluck said:

I was afraid of that, seems the actual long fang boxes are out of production and the devastator boxes only has 2 of each weapon. 
 

so may end up doing 4 las canons and 1 rocket launcher and the other box 4 plasma and 1 heavy Bolter. 

 

Personally I lean towards a Splash of Las and Rockets as that way you have the versatility to take on more or less anything (Missiles for light armour or hordes of Infantry, Las Cannons for anything tougher, and generic anti tank duties) I tend to stay away from plasma due to hazardous, and don't feel the Heavy bolter does enough to be worth taking unless you take a lot of them, though assuming you're working with what you have Plasma would be a solid option for taking down or at least hurting some of the tougher bugs.

 

An easy way of converting extra missiles is to use the Hunter killer launchers from Vehicle sprues, if you want to go down that route :)

[Karhedron]

I would strongly recommend some Grav Cannons. They can put the hurt on tough targets so mix well with Lascannnons but also have a decent rate of fire so mix well with plasma/HB too. With the relative downgrading of melta, we struggle a bit against tougher tanks unless with invest in dedicated tank destroyers like the Gladiator Lancer. Grav Cannons give some decent infantry-portable anti-tank options that mix well with other types of weapons in the squad.

[Pureluck]

3 hours ago, Starlight_Wolf said:

 

Personally I lean towards a Splash of Las and Rockets as that way you have the versatility to take on more or less anything (Missiles for light armour or hordes of Infantry, Las Cannons for anything tougher, and generic anti tank duties) I tend to stay away from plasma due to hazardous, and don't feel the Heavy bolter does enough to be worth taking unless you take a lot of them, though assuming you're working with what you have Plasma would be a solid option for taking down or at least hurting some of the tougher bugs.

 

An easy way of converting extra missiles is to use the Hunter killer launchers from Vehicle sprues, if you want to go down that route :)

 

2 hours ago, Karhedron said:

I would strongly recommend some Grav Cannons. They can put the hurt on tough targets so mix well with Lascannnons but also have a decent rate of fire so mix well with plasma/HB too. With the relative downgrading of melta, we struggle a bit against tougher tanks unless with invest in dedicated tank destroyers like the Gladiator Lancer. Grav Cannons give some decent infantry-portable anti-tank options that mix well with other types of weapons in the squad.

Both solid ideas, think I’ll try to put together two units of both of those ideas, las and missiles and another with grav cannons. 
 

 Truth be told I havnt seen too many vehicles where I go, I see chaos players with dreadnoughts and demons, one does occasionally bring magnus the red.  I saw a barge of some type from a necron player… really the only vehicle heavy armies in my area I’m seeing are the imperial guard players. Even the one or two Ork players I’ve seen hasn’t really  brought anything vehicle wise other than seeing one glueing together those choppers, that one has me a tad concerned as everything I’ve seen them do can really tear stuff up. 
 

think I’m the only one really bringing a vehicle that’s worth a good amount of points (stormwolf which I just ordered) other space marine players are using primaris marines and dreadnoughts I’ve seen a few rhinos but no land raiders or Skyhawks so far. 
 

 I’m waiting on my buddy to count up his points, he was talking about 2100 earlier  but he’s trying to bring it up more, he really prefers the large scale battles 2500 and more. I’m still proceeding with my 2000 build as normal as the main backbone and build up from there. 

[Pureluck]

So things seem to of gone completely off the rails, soon after my last post he and I were looking at our finances and said “yea we can push this to 2500” so I begin working out the points and seeing what units I wanted to field, few days later he says “you think we can do 3000?” I told him that I am just two units shy of 2500, with you not coming here til October, 3000 is very doable on my end.

 

I may of gone a little too crazy about this… so for 2500 I would have 

1 unit of 15 blood claws lead by Lukas.

2 units of 10 grey hunters

1 unit of 10 wolf guard in power armor with a Rune Priest.

2 units of long fangs (managed to find plenty of las cannons)

1 unit of 10 wolf guard in terminator armor with thunder hammers and storm shields. Lead by Arjac Rockfist

1 venerable dreadnought with melta and flamer and close combat

1 venerable dreadnought with twin linked las cannons and missiles.

and murderfang… because why not?!

1 storm wolf 

 

so for 3000 points, what I could do is Ragnar Blackmane, bjorn the fellhanded, and one last unit of long fangs. 
 

so for the 2500 all I need left is 5 terminators with hammers and shields and 10 more grey hunters. I got everything else on that

 

the original idea is the same. The blood claws with Lukas would be on the storm wolf which would hover into position to unload, Arjac with the Terminators would teleport in on the opposite flank and start tenderizing the T-800 knock offs. Meanwhile long fangs and my ballistas style dreadnought are picking off  the heavy hitters, everything else is spread out in increments taking out his 3 units of scarabs first before pushing up center. So basically a pincer maneuver (as much as possible seeing as how I’m sure we are going to need to deploy long ways and I’m going to make sure I spread everything out) between the blood claws and wolf guard terminators on either flank. Everything else advancing up the center spaced out. 
 

 I’m thinking this is going to force him to really think long and hard about who he wants to target, 4 dreadnoughts is mean, 3 units of space marines shooting as they are moving up the center from cover to cover is nothing to skoff at either, I’m thinking my las cannons can sit back in the deployment especially if I get some elevated terrain pieces to set them on on my side and essentially snipe his doomsday guns. Thinking for my last long fang unit to go either missiles or grav cannons. On top of all of that 5 named characters. My eventual goal is to get all my units except my long fangs and my ballista dreadnought into melee and just let the carnage ensue. 
 

 I think this is a hyper aggressive assault list.