"Advanced Warhammer 40,000" AKA "Oh god not another homebrew ruleset..."

[Evil Eye]

10th appears to be off to a magnificently crappy start, and whilst there have been a few attempts at fan-made editions, none of them are quite what I'm looking for. So, I'm gonna try making my own and add one more attempt to the pile!

 

I've more or less just started work on it, and haven't got anything worth publishing just yet, but I thought I'd share what I've got in mind thus far.

 

The core of the rules is based on bits of 4th, 3rd and a tiny sprinkling of 5th edition, with elements plucked from other editions where needed. My aim is to achieve a "middleweight" ruleset; not completely bloated like 7th, but not a "rules-lite" system either to allow for more granularity and simulationism where appropriate. The basics are very much in line with what you'd expect from the era re; turn structure and basic mechanics. I want a system that is intuitive and engaging to old hands but still plenty understandable to newer players- it's my belief that a truly good system can be great fun for both camps. The aim isn't to create a lowest-common-denominator game that appeals to everyone of course, as aside from anything else I firmly believe that no system can appeal to everyone, but rather that anyone who finds the idea of the system appealing should be able to enjoy it.

 

There's a few elements that are more original (or introduced from other editions). Notably:

>Movement as a stat is in here, as I feel adding it back was one of the things 8th did good, and having more granularity with movement for units is no bad thing.

>There will be a new stat (or rather a stat cribbed from very old editions) called "Will". This functions very much like Leadership but is used for psychic interactions. I thought this would be a good stat to add to represent cowardly creatures which are nonetheless potent Psykers (such as a Tzeentchian Sorcerer who maybe isn't the epitome of valor) or ferocious individuals who aren't great at warpcraft (looking at you, Weirdboyz!). It will also be used to allow units to attempt to dispel certain psychic attacks.

>Flamers and other such weapons will get a substantial buff via the ability to set things on fire!

>The system is going to be "modular"- due to being an unofficial ruleset intended to allow people to play 40K "their way", certain parts of the rules will be optional and can be ignored or included according to a group's/pairing's preference. This could even be as simple as just saying "If you find Will too confusing, just use Leadership instead".

>In order to accommodate for the annoying fluctuation of model and base size over the years, all profiles will include a recommended minimum base size; you're welcome to put your model on a larger base but smaller ones aren't recommended. For instance, Carnifexes get a minimum recommended base size of 60mm round, should you wish (as I prefer) to mount your 'fexes on those (as they were originally packed until recently-ish).

 

The biggest change is in the FOC- there will be an FOC but it will be more akin to WHFB, with slots based on rarity rather than strict organization role. This is what I have in mind (using Space Marines as an example):

Warlord: Pretty simple, the warlord. The big cheese. You can only ever have one Warlord. For a Space Marine army this would be a Captain or Chapter Master, though a Master of Sanctity or Chief Librarian would also apply.

Heroes: Secondary characters, guys like Chaplains, Techmarines, Apothecaries etc. Capped to 2 in smaller games (1000 or less), 3 in medium (2000 or less) and 4 in large games (over 2000).

Troops: Core, battleline, rank and file. Those guys! Tactical Marines are the go-to for Space Marines, though certain chapter tactics might allow other choices. There is no limit on how many you can take but you MUST take at least 2 Troops units.

Elite: Equivalent to Special in WHFB, guys like Veterans, Dreadnoughts, Terminators and smaller tanks (Predators for instance) would fall under this umbrella. Rarer and more powerful than your average unit but not egregiously so. Limited to 3 in small games, 4 in medium and 5 in large.

Rare: The big guys, the stuff you won't be fielding a lot of. In Space Marine terms that's mostly really nasty vehicles like Land Raiders and Vindicators. Limited to 2 in small games, 3 in medium and 4 in large.

Support: Basically a misc/"everything else" category, these are units taken in fewer numbers due to their specialization rather than necessarily rarity. This is a broad category and includes things like Assault Marines, Devastators, Bikers, Scouts and so on; they're not necessarily rare but in a Codex-compliant chapter they're not the main "boots on the ground". It also applies to dedicated transports, retinues and other units that can only be taken alongside other units. There is no upper limit on how many you can take and there is no minimum requirement either. In the case of Space Marines, of course, certain Chapters might be able to take some of these as Troops at the expense of other units; for example, a White Scars army might be able to take Bikers as troops but Devastators are moved to Elite instead.

 

As for the Codex rules, these will be built using the maxim of "fewer units, more options". The idea being that instead of the current mess of a thousand different datasheets for varieties of Chaplain, for example, you instead have one Chaplain which can be equipped as you see fit. This will apply to most unit types and should mean that the number of datasheets is much reduced whilst actual army customization goes way up. For instance, in the Space Marine roster, Veterans are a single datasheet that can be equipped more or less however you see fit using whatever sufficiently grizzled/mighty looking Astartes you want. Bladeguard are a perfect candidate for this, and would simply count as Veterans with storm shields and power weapons.

Also, each Codex will have a Chapter Approved style set of Vehicle (or Creature in Tyranid's case) Design Rules, for use with opponent's permission.

 

Some specific ideas for individual factions I have:

>Chaos will be one mega-dex that should allow you to field any kind of Chaos army you want.

>Daemons will be similar to the HH1.0 Ruinstorm rules- very "mini-agnostic" and basically allowing you to convert and model your Daemons as you see fit.

>Space Marines will have, on the individual Astartes level, zero distinction between Primaris and Firstborn; a Marine is a Marine. All models should be playable, and there will be rules for Primaris vehicles and such, but redundant unit splits (Outriders and Bikers, Intercessors and Tacticals etc) will be "fused", meaning you will finally be able to put Intercessors in a Rhino!

 

Anyway, I still have a lot of thinking to do, but any feedback on the above is appreciated.

[unrealchamp88]

I like the read of your plan. Once you have something on here i'll be happy to throw it to my gaming group and see how it runs.

[Xenith]

On 7/5/2023 at 7:32 PM, Evil Eye said:

Support: Basically a misc/"everything else" category, these are units taken in fewer numbers due to their specialization rather than necessarily rarity. This is a broad category and includes things like Assault Marines, Devastators, Bikers, Scouts and so on; they're not necessarily rare but in a Codex-compliant chapter they're not the main "boots on the ground".

 

The fantasy style army selection is good, and echoes 1st and 2nd ed 40k.

 

For marines specifically, I think you could do good things here by having the stuff that's pretty standard in a battle company being in the 'core' section, with other stuff being in special and rare. 

 

Segregating things into slots like this allows for greater balancing between units - assault marines just have to be balanced v tac marines, etc, and not against vanguard as they're different slots. Similarly, in a game where shooting is king, devastators would be comparitively more expensive than tactical or assault marines. It also has the advantage of allowing players to build the type of army they want, without having to resort to subfaction type shenanigans which add complexity and imbalance. 

 

On 7/5/2023 at 7:32 PM, Evil Eye said:

certain Chapters might be able to take some of these as Troops at the expense of other units; for example, a White Scars army might be able to take Bikers as troops but Devastators are moved to Elite instead.

As above, the problem with this is that there is zero penalty and 100% bonus for a player that wanted to use bikers without devastators anyway. This is similar to the 4th ed chapter design rules where there were penalties, some of which were entirely pointless, like "cannot include a librarian" or "cannot ally with others" compared to the bonuses. 

[Evil Eye]

So I am still working on this...slowly! I've been brainstorming a few more ideas for the core rules.

 

One thing I want to do is make the game as "backwards compatible" with older models as possible. For instance, every datasheet will have a noted minimum recommended base size(s). This will generally be the smallest base that was shipped with an official version of that unit- for example, the Penitent Engine will be listed as minimum 50mm, as the plastic model comes on those. Using larger bases (within reason) is fine, as in the case with the metal PE which was on a 60mm. Smaller bases than recommended are advised against, as aside from anything else in most cases using a smaller base would be a headache to actually mount the model on in the first place! Note that this is not a "hard" rule and players will be encouraged to use common sense rather than trying to provide a watertight base size chart. More important is that if a model is mounted on a base of a certain size, all other instance of the same model must also use that size. So if you prefer 40mms on your Tyranid Warriors that's fine but all Warriors must then use 40mms.

 

Another idea for backwards compatibility is having radically different incarnations of the same unit be represented as different variants at a rules level. For instance, Greater Daemons; tiny ones that fit on 40mms (Realm of Chaos lead versions for instance) would be "Fearsome" Greater Daemons, more like large Heralds. The Middlehammer-era sculpts that fit on 60mms would be "Mighty" Greater Daemons and would be the middleweight option, still a force to be reckoned with but leaving you with more points for other stuff. The current very large plastic ones (or the FW ones!) would be "Exalted" Greater Daemons, and would be terrifying to face but very expensive in points.

 

Similarly, different incarnations of characters would have different profiles- Calgar would have his power armour, Armour of Antilochus and modern-day profiles (although granted IIRC the Armour of Antilochus and the current model are so similarly sized/armed that they might be fully interchangeable). Because as mentioned the Primaris distinction would be completely removed at a rules level, so anyone can ride in a Rhino (as long as they're not Terminator-armoured) and any character can join any unit, this would allow "historical" games to be more easily played whilst still allowing people who like the more modernized sculpts to use them for 42nd Millennium games. Likewise, Ghazghkul Thraka would have profiles for his original form and his post-resurrection BIG BOY model, depending on the era you want to play in. The only restriction being you can only ever use one of any character; no using old Ghaz and new Ghaz in the same army! Updates where the differences in armament and such are very minor between old and new sculpts (Mephiston for instance) will probably just be abstracted as one datasheet that can be used with either model.

 

It will surprise nobody to know that "no model, no rules" is 100% gone. Using Dreadnoughts as an example, standard Mk. V/IV boxnoughts get their full panoply of armaments, including the FW weapons such as Mortis configurations, inferno cannons etc. The Redemptor and Ballistus Dreadnought are both squashed into a single "Mk. VI Dreadnought" datasheet, but can use each other's weapons (the lascannons can be paired with a CCW etc) and also get access to upsized versions of the other currently unrepresented Dreadnought weapons (autocannons etc) for the player to convert as he sees fit. Likewise, reasonable build options which are easily physically possible but unsupported in 10th are legal here- for instance, if you want to run a cheaper Brutalis Dreadnought without the turret, that's an option. The only wargear restrictions will be for balance/fluff purposes (whilst it might be possible to build an army of Guardsmen with plasma guns, this is not legal as that would be broken!).

 

(Speaking of the "Mk. VI" Dreadnoughts, they will be tougher but more expensive than regular Dreads, and I'm contemplating whether they should get some representation of the "Oops! I just dropped dead inexplicably!" fluff...)

 

On the note of vehicles, they get bespoke rules again. I'm torn between the traditional front/side/rear AV and a simplified armour facing system where everywhere that isn't the rear uses the same armour value, to avoid arguments about facings (the rear of a vehicle is pretty easy to determine whilst the front and side, whilst obvious on a Vindicator, is a bit trickier on a Raider). Weapon arcs are back, and limited traverse weapons get bonuses over full-rotation turrets both for immersion and balance purposes. As an example, the battle cannon on a Leman Russ cannot normally be fired accurately if the tank moves more than 6", and past 9" it cannot be fired at all! The Malcador has the same battle cannon, but as it is mounted in a more stable semi-casemate fixed turret with a 90 degree fire arc, it can fire more accurately on the move. This would both add some flavour to the game and also make fixed-firing-arc vehicles at less of a disadvantage than turrets, or at least compensate for the weakness of limited traverse.

 

Finally (for now) incendiary weapons will have simple but hopefully engaging rules that will make them more useful and more fun. Flamers will be able to set targets alight and possibly damage light vehicles (though this will be risky as you'll have to get close!) and will of course be devastating against fortifications.

 

...I should probably get on and work more on this...

[40k_fan]

I would love to be able to contribute to this ruleset. I love classic models and rules. I've made rules for the Furbindus, Malevolence, Marauder, Dominator, and Abomination Dreads, the Saturnine and Vulkan Terminator armor, and rules for Thunder Warriors and Men of Iron. There is just a lot of cool stuff that just made sense, and it should've been brought back.

 

For example, GRAV WEAPONS! They used to be so cool. Bring back Wound Roll is equal to the Target's Save.

 

[Evil Eye]

Tragedy has struck- the laptop I was writing this on died. I need to see if I can get the files off the SSD...

[MoriyaSchism]

4 hours ago, Evil Eye said:

Tragedy has struck- the laptop I was writing this on died. I need to see if I can get the files off the SSD...

Hopefully you can recover it. I like what you wrote so far.

[unrealchamp88]

On 11/21/2023 at 5:07 PM, Evil Eye said:

Tragedy has struck- the laptop I was writing this on died. I need to see if I can get the files off the SSD...

"Machine, heal thyself"

[camaleaowar]

So, did you manage to recover what you had written? 

[Evil Eye]

Not yet- I'm tempted to start again as in truth I hadn't written THAT much. I do want to get back to work on it though.

 

On that note, I'm wondering about monstrous creatures. Because I'm wanting to put move values back in (I feel it adds more granularity and possible balancing than "everything moves 6" or 12"), I'm worried that faster MCs could be catastrophically overpowered. I was thinking maybe removing the 2D6 AP rolls on them, but giving certain monsters ways to get it back. Crushing Claws on a Carnifex, sword on a Wraithlord, etc.

[Evil Eye]

We're officially back in business! Whilst I wasn't able to recover my original notes, with some assistance from a friend I've managed to get back to "where I left off" before my previous cogitator gave up its machine spirit. Which...wasn't very far, admittedly, but I'm feeling far more motivated to get work done. Especially with the large amount of reference material from other wargames I've been granted to use for research (notably Warzone).

 

Never mind, this one died too. I think I'm cursed.

Edited August 6 by Evil Eye