Star Cannons or Bright Lances?

[Clymer]

With Space Marines looking hot and increased toughness across the board, I’m anticipating a need for some serious anti-power armor punch. Are Starcannons the great choice they seem to be for this?

 

At the same time, tanks are looking great so Brightlances are also tempting.

 

What are folks thinking is the right mix of Bright Lances and Starcannons for their wave serpents/guardians/Wraithlords?

[Kallas]

At the moment, Wave Serpents should probably take Starcannons, since they are 4 shots and Twin-linked (this is very likely to be a typo, since GW have been pretty bad for their proofreading; but it's possible it's intended).

 

For other units like War Walkers, Falcons, Vypers, and Wraithlords, it's probably better to go for Brightlances unless your local area is particularly light on vehicles at the moment. Starcannons are absolutely solid right now, but S8 doesn't cut it vs vehicles/monsters in 10e. +1 extra shot vs +4 extra Strength (and +d6 extra damage) is not enough to justify the Starcannon if you're expecting to face a reasonable amount of armour on the table.

 

But if you think you're gonna be facing heaps on MEQ bodies and little to no armour, then the Starcannons will do some solid work.

[Clymer]

Thanks for the response!

 

So if the 4 shots on WS Starcannons turns out to be a typo, you’d be back to Bright Lance on the WS?

[Kallas]

8 minutes ago, Clymer said:

So if the 4 shots on WS Starcannons turns out to be a typo, you’d be back to Bright Lance on the WS?

Honestly, I'm not sure. Twin-linked is kind of an odd rule for Eldar, at least while we only have the Battle Detachment, since we're getting 1 free reroll to wound (and to hit), which devalues Twin-linked quite a lot, and Wave Serpents are forced into Twin-linked weapons. They're still decent for their cost (120 is ok) and resilience (the 5++ and 13W is nice for the cost), but their output is fairly substantially reduced from previous editions (which isn't the end of the world, it's just a large shift).

 

If your list is generally light on AT, I think the Twin Bright Lance would be fine. Otherwise, they're pretty useable with any weapon option: Starcannons are still good with 2 shots, as Twin-linked helps them push both shots through; Shuriken Cannons are ok, if Starcannons drop to 2 shots; Scatter Lasers are alright, but probably better on other platforms (Falcons, Vypers, Shroud Runners, etc); Missile Launchers are alright too, Twin-linked/Battle Host helps the Starshot land the wound roll, and the Sunburst is good because the AP-1 helps is delete infantry, and Twin-linked keeps it wounding effectively.

 

Typing that out just now, I probably just convinced myself that the Twin Missile Launcher is better, but then again I've always liked my generalist weapons 

[Clymer]

I often convince myself different ways as I type

[Paladin777]

I've got a feeling the twin starcannon's shots are a typo, but enjoy it while it lasts!

 

regardless, I'm going to magnetize mine when I finally get ahold of one (or more). 

Edited July 10, 2023 by Paladin777

[Karhedron]

I am running a pair of Fire Prisms as my primary anti-tank. Even with the price hike they are a solid choice and deal reliable damage. I do have a couple of Brightlances as backup but I find the MEQ-killing power of Starcannons is worth bringing a couple along. I am currently running my Wave Serpent with them although I may re-evaluate if the 4 shots does turn out to be a typo.

 

I am also quite liking Shuricannons in this edition as the combination of Sustained Hits, AP-1 and 2D makes it a pretty good all-round infantry killer. But the fact that they can be mounted on Jetbikes and chin mounts generally means that I prefer to dedicate the slots vehicles to heavier weapons where possible.

[Emperor Ming]

With a to hit and wound roll, combined with free wargear, brightlance has to be the top option

 

All my eldar hobby is on hold atm, waiting to see how severe the nerfs are

 

From the sounds of it, its going to be quite the whack with the nerf bat

[Karhedron]

I hope that the nerfs are not excessive. We have a handful of over-performing units but a lot of mediocre/poor units too. For example, Scatter bikes are virtually invalidated by the existence of Shroudrunners who get +1 Wound, Stealth and a Sniper Rifle shot for the same points.

[Xenith]

Weirdly in a position where I'd want additional strength and damage over the starcannon's extra shot. Killing an extra marine is ok, but that can be done with shuricats, while wounding big tanks is tougher now, and I think we'll see more of them on the field at least at the start of 10th. Wounding anything T9+ on a 5+ isn't great from the cannons. We also need the S12 for gravis armour and such. 

 

The exception being serpent starcannons, which is an obvious typo, and possibly the wraithlord which is now back to the 3rd ed BS4+....Even then, two brightlances on there would be good. 

Edited August 16, 2023 by Xenith

[Kallas]

1 hour ago, Xenith said:

Weirdly in a position where I'd want additional strength and damage over the starcannon's extra shot. Killing an extra marine is ok, but that can be done with shuricats, while wounding big tanks is tougher now, and I think we'll see more of them on the field at least at the start of 10th. Wounding anything T9+ on a 5+ isn't great from the cannons. We also need the S12 for gravis armour and such. 

Yeah, I think the big problem is the D2. If they were D3 they'd be good all-rounders for anything short of main battle tanks (T9+), and each failed save would be a dead Terminator or below; but D2 means that against the tougher elites they're just not quite punchy enough, and don't have the volume needed to saturate; whereas the Bright Lance is gaining a lot of damage and strength for the cost of that single shot (and Battle Host loves those low volume/high quality shots for the rerolls).

 

If they were 3 shots or D3, I think they'd be fine (better if wargear points weren't kaput...)

[Karhedron]

The jump in vehicle toughness seems to have left a lot of mid-range weapons struggling a bit. Plasma, autocannons etc don't quite have the punch to threaten vehicles the way they used to while the general reduction in AP means they don't quite have the punch vs elite infantry either.

[Dr. Clock]

Assuming the 4 shots on serpent is a typo - Wherever you can have a lance, you probably should IMO... unless you're playing 2-3 triple Prisms, d-cannons, WKnight or whatever. If you've got 5-7 proper anti-armour assets already, I'd go to shuriken cannons and basically aspect warriors to shoot marines rather than starcannons... Basically I always go for maximum shots first and Dmg 2 second once I've filled enough lance slots. I do have scatter lasers on my serpents and insist on using them as such though, and they're also not bad tbh since they still wound marines on 3s re-rolling and don't care about cover. Scatters are completely useless into terminators of course... but starcannon wouldn't be a tonne better since you kill one max, but most likely might do 2 wounds.

 

On 8/16/2023 at 5:20 AM, Kallas said:

Yeah, I think the big problem is the D2. If they were D3 they'd be good all-rounders for anything short of main battle tanks

 

100% - then its max damage potential would at least roughly match the other options instead of being a third lower than all comparators. For a serpent I'd take missiles or cannon before starcannon tbh. Twin-linked gets better the more shots you have, which helps the scatters and missiles a bit IMO.

 

TL; DR Starcanon is not terrible, it's just not as good as a lance when it actually matters.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.