Tactica Aeldari: Guardians

[Karhedron]

Welcome to the next in a series of posts that are intended to provide a "deep dive" into a single unit at a time in the new Index. This is not going to be as organised as a "Unit of the week" series as I always struggle to stick to routines. In order to keep things reasonable, I am going to lump both flavours of Guardians (Storm and Defenders) into a single analysis.

 

Here are some questions to consider:

 

• Are you considering running Guardians in your army?
• Do you prefer Storm or Defender or do you see good roles for both?
• What wargear and options are you considering?
• What Leader(s) would you look to run them with, do any good combos stand out?
• Do they have good synergy with any Stratagems?

 

If you would like your model showcased here, please post a pic on the following thread. https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/363498-eldar-photos-for-uotw-series-im-ready-for-my-close-up/

 

 

[Clymer]

I like battleline units and have always liked Guardians, so I am thrilled that they seem to have some usefulness finally, but time will tell.

 

I have a couple of ideas, but not sure how solid they will turn out to be.

 

Eldrad Bunker

• Eldrad
• Guardian Defenders w/ Starcannon or Shuriken Cannon
• Wave Serpent

These guys would be mid-field objective holders. Moving up gives Eldrad more opportunities for his 18" Doom and Mind War. Camping on an objective generates that extra fate dice (optimized by having another Farseer and Reader of the Runes elswhere in the army). Use the Wave Serpent for cover/LOS disruption. The WS can be used to decamp in a hurry if things get dicey in the midfield. Plus, Eldrad has to go somewhere anyway and his three extra fate dice and Doom and Mind War make him too good to pass up, I think.

 

Backfield Objective Campers

• Warlock with Singing Spear
• Guardian Defenders with Bright Lance

These guys camp on a backfield objective and generate the extra Fate Dice. The Warlock discourages people from charging, and upgrades them to a 13" move if they need to get out of there or advance on a midfield objective. Quicken pairs well with Shuriken catapults assault ability too. All that said, at 155 points for this combo, that's a big investment for picking up just one extra fate dice without a ton of other utility. I guess the bright lance/singing spear combo is a nice punch in the backfield, but again, I think there are more points efficient ways to get there.

 

Storm Guardians

These guys seem like a stretch to me no matter what, even though I'm really intrigued by their Stormblades ability. I think their main thing would be to dash around the board with a Warlock using quicken, or on a Wave Serpent, and collect objectives. It would be nice to get some residual income VPs as they dash off to the next thing. But is it worth the cost? 160 points for Storm Guardians w/ Warlock, and 225 points for Storm Guardians + Wave Serpent. Maybe I'd play with this for fun and because I like the models and have always wanted to use them, but I don't think this is an optimal choice.

[Clymer]

One other thought for Storm Guardians for the Mission: Only War

 

They can allow you to leave your backfield objectives unattended, if that is your wont.

 

In turn 1, they'll control objective 1 at the end of the first command phase. They can then move off of towards objective 2 while still controlling objective 1, thanks to their Stormblades ability. In turn 2 they walk onto objective 2 and now you control and score two backfield objectives with just one unit.

 

Since scoring doesn't start until turn 2, this seems pretty efficient, allowing the rest of your army to move up field and punch faces. That is, until your opponent's backfield stalkers arrive and then I expect the Storm Guardians to fade like tears in the rain.

[Karhedron]

My concern with Storm Gurdians is that they are kitted out for melee but hit like a wet noodle. For the cost of Storm Guardians and a Warlock, you can get Illic + some Rangers who can camp on your backfield Objective and plink wounds off stuff.

[Karhedron]

If you are using Storm Guardians to hop between multiple Objectives then we have multiple stratagems to boost their speed. Matchless Agility, Fire and Fade and Phantasm all help them to cover ground quickly and help bag a second Objective by the start of T2. I think that they can potentially move 28" in your and your opponent's 1st turn. Easily enough to claim the 2nd Objective at the start of T2.

Edited July 8, 2023 by Karhedron

[Kallas]

44 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

If you are using Storm Guardians to hop between multiple Objectives then we have multiple stratagems to boost their speed. Matchless Agility, Fire and Fade and Phantasm all help them to cover ground quickly and help bag a second Objective by the start of T2. I think that they can potentially move 28" in your and your opponent's 1st turn. Easily enough to claim the 2nd Objective at the start of T2.

I think that would be a strong waste of resources.

 

Aside from the fact that that's 4CP's worth of Stratagems (impossible to get in Battle Round 1), it's using all of those CP on Storm Guardians just to position them on an objective assuming that the enemy is not going for it in their Turn 2 either. Further, you're spending those CP on Storm Guardians and not on your actual good units: using Fire and Fade and Storm Guardians instead of Fire Prisms, Falcons, War Walkers, Fire Dragons, etc; Phantasm is a great defensive Stratagem, and Storm Guardians are both cheap and mostly worthless - they are a support tool (ie, the sticky objective ability), and not something that is worth spending many CP on just to claim an objective that they might be able to let you hold without putting units on it.

 

I could see use for one unit to move around and replace other units on an objective, but I don't see a world where you could possibly be justified in spaffing out a heap of CP (especially in the CP-lacking world of 10e) just to move them a bit faster but leaving your actual useful units more exposed. End game Matchless Agility to claim an objective? Sure, but not a T1 use of 3+ CP to claim what is most likely a midfield objective.

 

9 hours ago, Karhedron said:

My concern with Storm Gurdians is that they are kitted out for melee but hit like a wet noodle. For the cost of Storm Guardians and a Warlock, you can get Illic + some Rangers who can camp on your backfield Objective and plink wounds off stuff.

This is the real problem with Storm Guardians: they do nothing. They are pathetic in melee and even with their improved wargear (ie, getting to take all of their special weapons at once) they just don't provide much value because they still fold like T3/5++ bodies will. As you said, Illic plus 5 Rangers is the same cost as a unit of Storm Guardians, and they provide anti-character as well as being untargetable from models more than 12" away. While they aren't a sticky objective unit, they're going to actually provide some value to your force.

 

As for Defenders, they have some value in their Fate Dice generation, but with Fate Dice being nerfed to one per phase, even that has been devalued quite significantly. Realistically, you're gonna be spending maybe two per turn at most (one in the Shooting phase, one in the Fight phase) with an optional one in the Movement phase for an advance or maybe a save if the opponent Overwatches something important; and in the opponent's turn, it's maybe one in their Shooting/Fight phases each. Considering that the initial 12 FD are rolled at the start of the battle, the generation of extra FD is not hugely impactful any more, as any new ones still need to roll probably a 4+ to be even worth spending most of the time - and any low rolls can likely be converted into 6s by a Farseer anyway.

 

Honestly, I feel like with the Fate Dice nerf that they chose (IMO one of the worse options they could have gone with) they have greatly devalued Guardian Defenders. With the 10e changes to force organisation, I really don't see the place that any Guardians have in an Eldar army - pre-nerf Defenders had a place, but now they're an expensive and fragile unit with little output and a much less useful ability.

 

That said, it's not entirely worthless, because you might get good FD rolls, but that's a slow process (1/turn per unit on different objectives, assuming your opponent doesn't slaughter the T3/4+ bodies) and inherently unreliable (4+ is needed to be good replacements, as even 3s aren't that good, since you can only spend one per phase, you're not going to want to use them on hit rolls when you can avoid them). I guess the best use is probably as a Farseer's bodyguard, generate some Fate Dice on a backfield objective, hope that your other units can do some work and maybe their heavy weapon might contribute since it is going to be the only weapon to properly benefit from the Battle Host buff.

 

• Are you considering running Guardians in your army?

No.

• Do you prefer Storm or Defender or do you see good roles for both?

Defender over Storm every day of the week, but I don't see them having good roles.

• What wargear and options are you considering?

Bright Lances on Defenders are ok, since they benefit from Battle Host the most, but otherwise they don't really have any options. 

• What Leader(s) would you look to run them with, do any good combos stand out?

If you're going to run Defenders, they are ok as a Farseer's bodyguard, since they have a few bodies to absorb some damage and they're not too big to just hide away for the first turn or two. Not really any good combos, since Eldar have so few Leader options anyway, and none of them benefit Guardians in any realistic way (Fortune or Guide on Defenders is pretty weak, when they can be put on any other Eldar unit which will use those buffs better).

• Do they have good synergy with any Stratagems?

They don't have any good synergies! Storms running around quickly with Matchless Agility to grab objectives is cute, and Defenders using Phantasm to hide is nice, but those are still strong buffs for other units and CP is a scarce resource better spent buffing the actually useful units in the army (ie, vehicles and Aspects).

[Clymer]

On 7/8/2023 at 8:51 AM, Karhedron said:

If you are using Storm Guardians to hop between multiple Objectives then we have multiple stratagems to boost their speed. Matchless Agility, Fire and Fade and Phantasm all help them to cover ground quickly and help bag a second Objective by the start of T2. I think that they can potentially move 28" in your and your opponent's 1st turn. Easily enough to claim the 2nd Objective at the start of T2.

I don’t think you need any stratagems to pull off a double objective hop by the top of turn 2. Objectives just need to be 9” apart, and you only need to be within 3” to claim them.

 

Come to think of it, you can probably claim two right away by deploying between them without moving at all if the objectives are placed correctly.

 

But I’d just reiterate that’s a stretch for me. I don’t think I’d ever take them at all… just trying to think of what I’d use them for if for some reason I had to. That’s too bad because I really like the models and the idea of storm guardians.

[TrawlingCleaner]

Guardians sit nicely in the Cultist zone for me. I devote no resources towards them and am not surprised when they do nothing but am pleasently surprised when they do something cool

I usually whack them on a backfield objective and forget about them for the game. Whilst Fate Dice are nice, I mostly take them for the consistent Primary Objective points. If they get me 3-5 turns of 5 Points on my backfield objective, they've done their job and have paid their points tenfold.

 

I know Storm Guardians are bad but I have a real soft spot for them and run them when I can (although haven't gotten a game in with Eldar in 10th), I'm not sure on their utility just yet but a cheeky fusion shot with a Reroll to hit and wound could be pretty handy

[Bouargh]

I did not field my eldars so far in 10th but my 2 main ideas for guardians are:

 

1. Defenders - use them as a decoy, so that any attacker can be taken into cross fire by a nearby Avenger unit. Of course it requires sitting on an objective and using 1CP to get the best of the Avenger´s Overwatch.... Probably no leader in the guardians´ unit.

 

2. Storm - I would like to try an unit tooled with Warlock and Autarch, the latter with banshee mask so that everybody strikes first, and see if it brings any punch. Th issue is that these guies will not be able to take a ride, being 13 in total... Except if dropping the Warlock...

Edited July 10, 2023 by Bouargh
tipos

[Karhedron]

I am leaning towards the Defender squad with a Brightlance and possibly a Farseer/Eldrad (although they are probably up for debate in another thread). They camp on the home Objective and generate VPs and FDs. If they survive, great! If they don't then hopefully they will have been absorbing fire and protecting more valuable units.

 

I don't think a Warlock adds much to Defenders in this role since they are likely to be mainly static and will not need the improved mobility of Quicken and they are so far behind the lines that Restrain seems wasted.

 

Storm Guardians with a Quicken Warlock might have some value as Sticky Objective grabbers but I am not sure if they are worth the points.

[Karhedron]

I tried out the Defenders + Farseer combo in a 1500 point battle against Grey Knights. The battle went well but the Guardians didn't really get a chance to shine. T1 the GKs used their redeployment shenanigans to drop a NDK and a pair of Strike Squads behind my lines. The Stormbolter and Psilencer fire tore the Guardians to pieces although the Farseer survived by the skin of his teeth, even with Lightning Fast Reflexes giving the squad -1 to Hit against incoming fire.

 

Overall though I think I will persist with the Guardians for a few more games. Most armies don't have the resources to Deep Strike in large numbers into the backfield like that. Also I was using LOS blocking terrain to protect the Guardians but they were not in cover from the rear. Next time I must remember to use Phantasm to move them into cover. The +1 to saves would have been enough to keep a few of them alive.

[Dr. Clock]

On 7/7/2023 at 9:38 AM, Karhedron said:

Are you considering running Guardians in your army?

Just ran 2x10 Defenders w/ Lances + Eldrad and Farseer

 

On 7/7/2023 at 9:38 AM, Karhedron said:

Do you prefer Storm or Defender or do you see good roles for both?

Defenders just because they're what I've always use - and would take other things in Storm role most of the time I think.

 

On 7/7/2023 at 9:38 AM, Karhedron said:

What wargear and options are you considering?

Lances are so good and necessary.

 

On 7/7/2023 at 9:38 AM, Karhedron said:

What Leader(s) would you look to run them with, do any good combos stand out?

 

Farseer and Eldrad both worked great! Farseer sat back and looked cool while enemy got distracted by aspect warriors on one flank and deep-striking in rear.

 

Eldrad and co. ended up in melee and grinding through 10 sisters of battle over the entire game (turn 1 charge). They would have been alot faster at it as storm guardians, so may run some with him at some point. Would need a bit of hobby for flamers and whatnot.

 

On 7/7/2023 at 9:38 AM, Karhedron said:

Do they have good synergy with any Stratagems?

Emergency Bladestorm or Phantasm for home defense -  Matchless Agility for turn 1 infantry push if needs be, but should use cheap infiltrators for early trades anyway?

 

I liked the double guardian list, but will probably stick with regular farseer and one unit for classic home objective camper duty, as I'd usually prefer the 2 other effective units I can get instead of Eldrad and second squad.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[Emperor Ming]

I've just noticed guardians are same points as dark eldar warriors

 

They get two special weapons and two heavy weapons and sticky objectives

 

and guardians get.....

 

A nice space on the dust collectors shelf

[Dr. Clock]

4 minutes ago, Emperor Ming said:

and guardians get.....

AP -1 on their basic weapons? BS3+ dark lance on the move? Free Fate dice for doing what the unit's designed for? It's a little closer than one might think given those caveats... Be cool to let them take a special weapon I guess, but it wouldn't change a tonne tbh and I like the AP-1 for everyone almost as much as double special double heavy.

 

I understand that kabalites do seem basically just better with all that kit, though... For me they've felt like elves should in a way I wasn't expecting: actually heavily armed and capable in a trash fight.

 

Definitely a different vibe on the two units though IMO even if the points are the same. Guardians are basically just 'obligatory foot objective campers/traders' and farseer caddies; Kabalites are pretty much the beating heart of their army's infantry right now just through sheer lack of other viable data sheets. They really need to be good en masse, where guardians just need to be proficient in their narrow niche, which I think they still are. Flipping the script a little, which would you rather: storm guardians or wyches lol?

 

Granted, guardians are probably over-priced, but it's not by much I'd say (10pts?).

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[Emperor Ming]

They were 90 last ed and they still never moved off the shelf for most eldar players

[Karhedron]

I like the mechanic of generating FD while they hold an Objective as it is very fluffy and my Farseer needs to go somewhere. The problem is I find that the 12 starting FD are usually enough for the first 2-3 turns by which the game is usually decided. Maybe 12 FDs is too many for the initial pool as it reduces the incentive to look at units that provide extra. I haven't yet had a game where I have run out of FD while it still matters.