best chapter at the moment

[yan]

So i was wondering whats the best chapter at the moment. Are there any marine playes having some succeses at tournements? And what kind of lists are they bringing.

[Sea Creature]

Certainly not Dark Angels. Prolly Smurfs.

[Tacitus]

There's very little difference between chapters anymore. 

[mel_danes]

I've not looked into the detachments and rules for the variant chapters, not the datasheet for their unique units.

The few battle reports I've watched Templar looked cool, and dark angels were doing work.

Are they really that much worse than standard Gladius?

[Orange Knight]

The Dark Angels.

 

They have extremely powerful unique options, and can still use the other detachments such as Gladius. 

 

Lots of upsides. No downsides.

[Karhedron]

Probably Dark Angels. Deathwing Command squad with Relic Banner is incredibly powerful. Ravenwing Command squad with Apothecary is almost as good. Then you fill out with whatever standard Marine stuff you like to build up the rest of the army.

[N1SB]

I was curious about this after seeing something in our local Warhammer Store WhatsApp, so from this source: https://www.stat-check.com/the-meta

 

 

This seems to include data from before that FAQ/Errata/Developer's Commentary/Day 1 Patch regarding that Deathwatch Devastating Wound trick.

 

Also keep in mind the problem with player statistics, like how popular factions kinda have diluted win rates because everybody and their kid plays them, even if they're not dedicated tournament players, they just showed up for fun with their armies.

 

That said, while the top 3 being Eldar, GSC and Imperial Knights kinda makes sense to me, I'm a little bit surprised by the rest.  Like for some reason I thought both the Adeptus Sororitas and Mechanicus would be lowers around where Grey Knights were at.  Isn't that interesting.

[yan]

So no one knows about a marine list that made it to the top brackets of a tournament?

 

Also interesting to see csm doing better then any sm faction.

[SkimaskMohawk]

There's very few marine lists that have won tournaments (1 I think), with a few more performing very well. Data sites don't tend to report on the lists themselves, but goonhammer will comment on them if they place high enough and provide the list if they come top 4.

 

A bit out of date as there's been desolator and whirlwind nerfs, and people have really optimized the better factions, but this DA list placed third:

 

Spoiler

== Unforgiven Task Force = Adeptus Astartes Dark Angels ==

 

HQ01: Belial 100 pts

HQ2: Deathwing strike master 90 pts

— storm bolter and master crafted power weapon

EL1: Deathwing Command Squad (10) 430 pts

— 3x Termiator with storm bolter and chainfist

— 2x Deathwing Termiator with storm bolter and power fist

— 2x Deathwing Termiator with storm bolter and power fist and cyclone missile launcher

— 1x Deathwing Terminator Champion with halbeard of Caliban

— 1x Deathwing Terminator Apothecary with storm bolter

— 1x Deathwing Termiator Ancient with storm bolter and power fist

 

EL2: Scout Squad (5) – 70 pts

— 1x Scout with Heavy Bolter

— 3x Scout with Boltgun

— 1x Scout sergeant with Combiweapon and Thunder Hammer

 

EL3: Scout Sniper Squad (5) 75 pts

— 1x Scout with Missile Launcher

— 4x Scout with sniper rifle

 

HS1: Desolation Squad (10) – 240 pts

— 9x Desolation marine with superkrack rocket launcher and castellan launcher

— 1x Sergeant with Vengor Lanucher and castellan launcher

 

HS2: Desolation Squad (10) – 240 pts

— 9x Desolation marine with superkrack rocket launcher and castellan launcher

— 1x Sergeant with Vengor Lanucher and castellan launcher

 

HS3: Whirlwind 125 pts

— 1x Storm bolter

— 1x Hunter-Killer Missile

 

HS4: Whirlwind 125 pts

— 1x Storm bolter

— 1x Hunter-Killer Missile

 

HS5: Whirlwind 125 pts

— 1x Storm bolter

— 1x Hunter-Killer Missile

 

LoW: Lion el Johnson – 380 pts WARLORD

 

And this one placed second:

 

Spoiler

 

Unforgiven (1995 Points)

 

Space Marines
Dark Angels
Unforgiven Task Force
Strike Force (2000 Points)

 

CHARACTERS

Azrael (120 Points)
• 1x Lion’s Wrath
1x The Lion Helm
1x The Sword of Secrets

 

Chaplain in Terminator Armour (110 Points)
• 1x Crozius arcanum
1x Storm bolter
• Enhancements: Heavenfall Blade

 

Lion El’Jonson (380 Points)
• Warlord
• 1x Arma Luminis
1x Fealty

 

Primaris Apothecary (70 Points)
• 1x Absolvor bolt pistol
1x Close combat weapon
1x Reductor pistol
• Enhancements: Stubborn Tenacity

 

OTHER DATASHEETS

Deathwing Knights (235 Points)
• 1x Knight Master
• 1x Flail of the Unforgiven
• 4x Deathwing Knight
• 4x Mace of absolution

 

Desolation Squad (120 Points)
• 1x Desolation Sergeant
• 1x Bolt pistol
1x Castellan launcher
1x Close combat weapon
1x Vengor launcher
• 4x Desolation Marine
• 4x Bolt pistol
4x Castellan launcher
4x Close combat weapon
4x Superkrak rocket launcher

 

Desolation Squad (120 Points)
• 1x Desolation Sergeant
• 1x Bolt pistol
1x Castellan launcher
1x Close combat weapon
1x Vengor launcher
• 4x Desolation Marine
• 4x Bolt pistol
4x Castellan launcher
4x Close combat weapon
4x Superkrak rocket launcher

 

Devastator Squad (120 Points)
• 1x Devastator Sergeant
• 1x Astartes chainsword
1x Close combat weapon
1x Storm bolter
• 4x Devastator
• 4x Bolt pistol
4x Close combat weapon
4x Grav-cannon

 

Devastator Squad (120 Points)
• 1x Devastator Sergeant
• 1x Astartes chainsword
1x Close combat weapon
1x Storm bolter
• 4x Devastator
• 4x Bolt pistol
4x Close combat weapon
4x Lascannon

 

Drop Pod (70 Points)
• 1x Storm bolter

 

Hellblaster Squad (250 Points)
• 1x Hellblaster Sergeant
• 1x Close combat weapon
1x Plasma incinerator
1x Plasma pistol
• 9x Hellblaster
• 9x Close combat weapon
9x Plasma incinerator
9x Plasma pistol

 

Scout Sniper Squad (75 Points)
• 1x Scout Sniper Sergeant
• 1x Bolt pistol
1x Close combat weapon
1x Scout sniper rifle
• 4x Scout Sniper
• 4x Bolt pistol
4x Close combat weapon
4x Scout sniper rifle

Thunderfire Cannon (90 Points)
• 1x Techmarine Gunner
• 1x Bolt Pistol
1x Close combat weapon
1x Flamer
1x Gunner’s servo-arms
1x Plasma cutter
• 1x Thunderfire Cannon
• 1x Close combat weapon
1x Thunderfire cannon

 

ALLIED UNITS

Callidus Assassin (115 Points)
• 1x Neural shredder
1x Phase sword and poison blades

 

The only marine list that seems to have won an event was at a  17 player 5 round event pre July.

Edited July 23, 2023 by SkimaskMohawk

[Lemondish]

1 hour ago, yan said:

So no one knows about a marine list that made it to the top brackets of a tournament?

 

The highest I've seen in the past couple weeks were mostly GT lists that went 4-1. Most run Gladius.

 

At the London Open, placing 7th. It's a pretty eclectic mix of MSU usual suspects alongside a large brick of Desolators and a splash of Agents allies. Speed being of the essence here with Impulsors and Inceptors zipping about.

 

At Winchester GT, placing 2nd with an armour and very nearly 100% Gravis list. Redemptor, Repulsor Executioners, HINTs, etc.

 

At Metagame Hungary, once again going 4-1, with Desolators, Hellblasters, Sternguard, and supporting utility.

 

A rare deviation, at the Hee yaw GT, a Black Templars Righteous Crusaders list. This one is great just on style alone - big block of Primaris Crusaders with Grim and Helbrecht.

 

Capital City clash saw an Unforgiven DA detachment place second behind Nick Nanivati's GSC, so that's pretty impressive. Looks to be a shooty DA list but was pre Desolators points hike.

 

Raven Guard list went 4-1 and placed 7th there as well, filled to the brim with Phobos and jump pack units led by Shrike.

 

Lots of games to still play in 10th before the meta truly settles.

 

ETA: I think Deathwatch is a dark horse folks aren't yet considering. It could be unfamiliarity with the faction, or lack of models to field, or something more...but I truly believe they're one of the strongest options. Though I do wish the Primaris Kill Teams weren't so...lame.

Edited July 23, 2023 by Lemondish

[SkimaskMohawk]

I think a big bit of marine power is gated behind mass armour.

 

Predators aren't bad at all, the Gladiator lancer is really quite cheap, and repulsor executioners can do the business. That's off the top of my head; I'm sure there's other solid vehicle options that fit in nicely too.

 

The main issue is that all these things are expensive and tricky to buy. This isn't a unique problem to marines, but what is unique is that most people have pretty substantial collections of marines already; being told "hey ya, go drop another $330 plus tax on three gladiators, and maybe consider either a bunch of Preds at $85 each, or executioners at $135 each" feels extra bad. I'm pretty satisfied with my list, but I wouldn't go out of my way to drop a bit over $1000 before taxes on it if I wanted to start competing. 

[Lemondish]

23 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

I think a big bit of marine power is gated behind mass armour.

 

I'm not sure that's entirely true. It's the first thing people will consider when looking at their options, but there have been successful high placing competitive lists with a variety of different unit types as well. Of course, you'll want to make much more focused decisions when list building for a GT, where mass armour will face the full brunt of armies teching against Knights, at once reducing that perceived power.

 

If the competitive players can find success with such variety, then I imagine most Marine collections likely already include enough options to make a viable and effective list for almost any occasion.

 

Armour of all varieties does seem to be pretty effective, though. For example, there's been a gentleman over on Reddit sharing his experience running Imperial Fists with three Hammerfall bunkers. Last I saw he's gone 8-0, the madman.

 

 

[SkimaskMohawk]

8 hours ago, Lemondish said:

 

I'm not sure that's entirely true. It's the first thing people will consider when looking at their options, but there have been successful high placing competitive lists with a variety of different unit types as well. Of course, you'll want to make much more focused decisions when list building for a GT, where mass armour will face the full brunt of armies teching against Knights, at once reducing that perceived power.

 

If the competitive players can find success with such variety, then I imagine most Marine collections likely already include enough options to make a viable and effective list for almost any occasion.

 

Armour of all varieties does seem to be pretty effective, though. For example, there's been a gentleman over on Reddit sharing his experience running Imperial Fists with three Hammerfall bunkers. Last I saw he's gone 8-0, the madman.

 

 

 

Not that i disagree on the large amount offerings in the marine list or anything; you can certainly have a decent time with a bunch of the infantry units. But, a lot of vehicles got a glow up with their toughness increase, ap decrease, cover change, and low points. You generally need to take anti vehicle weapons to kill a vehicle now; midrange stuff struggles a bit into them, but still kills power armour completely fine.

 

And as you mentioned, it's not just marines that experience that phenomenon. Show me showdown has an almost all-vehicle eldar list taking 1st, with the 2nd place eldar featuring 6 vehicles and 3rd place eldar with 8. Denver 40k fightclub had knights vs vehicle spam CSM, with a 5 trukk 2 squigosaur ork list in the top 4 as well. Basically a lot of lists are skewing really hard into vehicles, or they're skewing really hard into infantry spam if they have the option to do it efficiently (like gsc and some Cron lists). 

[Dracos]

If I want to play with tanks, I’ll go play Flames of War not a sci-fi skirmish game. 
 

Conversely, as much as I am primarily an infantry lover and Primaris at that, I hate when one OP unit carries a faction so hard  that when it gets cut down like the dog it is, it drags the faction into the gutter with it. 
 

 

Edited July 25, 2023 by Dracos
Desolators

[Tacitus]

On 7/23/2023 at 6:00 PM, SkimaskMohawk said:

 

Not that i disagree on the large amount offerings in the marine list or anything; you can certainly have a decent time with a bunch of the infantry units. But, a lot of vehicles got a glow up with their toughness increase, ap decrease, cover change, and low points. You generally need to take anti vehicle weapons to kill a vehicle now; midrange stuff struggles a bit into them, but still kills power armour completely fine.

 

And as you mentioned, it's not just marines that experience that phenomenon. Show me showdown has an almost all-vehicle eldar list taking 1st, with the 2nd place eldar featuring 6 vehicles and 3rd place eldar with 8. Denver 40k fightclub had knights vs vehicle spam CSM, with a 5 trukk 2 squigosaur ork list in the top 4 as well. Basically a lot of lists are skewing really hard into vehicles, or they're skewing really hard into infantry spam if they have the option to do it efficiently (like gsc and some Cron lists). 

What I like is that it tends to encourage more Take All Comers and less skew. 

[Kastor Krieg]

Templar's best chapter, let's gooooo :>