Rule Help/Clarification on the Captain in Gravis Armor?

[Minsc]

42 minutes ago, Dracos said:

I won’t argue your math until I e had chance to see it play out on the table but it sure seems like a lot of auxiliary resources are being used to make those numbers stack up to compare to Terminators.

It's not that much really. A Biologis with Bolter Discipline is all you really need, and most SM-lists seem to include some variant of the "Character X with Bolter Discipline" in them anyway.

The Gravis Captain is nice but by no means necessary. He's basically only there to help with the CP economy by lowering the amount of CP needed from 1-2 to 0-1 when you play Storm of Fire (and if needed, Adaptive Strategy.) Of course, he's no slouch in combat and adds some shooting to the unit, but if I need to shave points he'd probably be among the first things to go.
 

Quote

I think if there were a way to improve their mobility without spending points on a vehicle I could come back around to there being some parity

 

The lack of mobility is their biggest flaw, but you can circumvent it somewhat with Devastator Doctrine (the +D6" movement can be crucial) or a transport. 
Both the Redeemer and Crusader are really good choices for them; move 12", jump out, shoot (and most likely eliminate) one target and then charge something else. The 12" move +3" disembark also means it's much easier to get Close-Quarters Firepower of against the target you actually want to bring down. 

Edited July 26, 2023 by Minsc

[DemonGSides]

17 hours ago, Minsc said:

I don't think they need a buff tbh.
The thing with Aggressors is that their damageoutput can easily spiral out of control due to how many buffs you can stack* on them.

Currently every Aggressor with Boltstorm shoots 4-9 shots + potential bonuses from blast.
Point for point I'm pretty sure they're our best infantry-unit in terms of sheer number of shots. 

*Now consider that these shots can easily get:
- AP2 (Close-quarters Firepower + Storm of Fire)
- Ignores Cover (Storm of Fire)
- Sustained on 5+ (Bolter Discipline)
- Lethal on 5+ (Biologis + Bolter Discipline)

- Full rerolls (Oath of Moment)

(An attached Captain will keep them in Devastator Doctrin with Adaptive Strategy to trigger both Storm of Fire and Bolter Discipline on 5+. If you're actually in Dev. Doctrine this turn, you can simply use Storm of Fire for free.)

Even aginst a small squad of 5-9 models, each Aggressor will average 7,5 shots.
6 Aggressors means 45(!) shots, 15 hits + 15 Lethals/15 Sustained (for a total of 15 Lethals and 30 hits).
With OoM it's another 5 hits, 5 Lethals/Sustained (for a total of 20 Lethals and 40 hits.)

Assuming you wound on a lousy 5+ because you're shooting at something thats T5-T7, it's still a total of 25 wounds (or slightly more actually, I'm not accounting for the TL of the gauntlets) at AP2 that ignores cover - or 42,22 wounds with OoM.

Even against a targets that's waaay out of their comfort zone (like a T8+ vehicle where they only wound on 6's and get no blast-bonus) you're looking at on average 17,33 wounds (slightly more due to TL) or 27,91 wounds with OoM. 

...Yeah Aggressors don't need no buff. 
Don't get fooled by that T6 W3; this unit is not an anvil - it's a massive hammer.
(But Shhh, don't let GW know how absolutely bonkers they can be.)

 

(10 Terminators with Stormbolters in RF-range and CML's shooting Frag will actually average 56 shots against a similar target, but with their shooting being at best AP1 and without access to Lethal Hits - GW can I have my Lt. in Terminator Armour please? - their firepower is nowhere near that of Aggressors.)

Edit: And to keep this somewhat OnT: A Gravis Captain is a solid addition to an Aggressor Squad, hehe. 

This little brick is the backbone of my SM list I've been tinkering with at the moment.  Got the 8 of these guys (6 Bolt Agg, Biologis, Captain) hanging out in the appropriately sized Land Raider (I can never remember their appropriate names, but the only that can hold 16 bodies worth) to form the core of my "reach out and touch someone" block.  It's a nutty amount of damage once you start slapping strategems on em.

 

The rest of the list is some battleline stuff to hold obj, then whatever else I'm feeling (Currently; A bunch of BA specific stuff).  But I'm not leaving home without my little 600 point block of absolute nonsense that can utterly eliminate most things it's being forced to look at.

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by DemonGSides