More Firstborn retired

[Scribe]

1 minute ago, MegaVolt87 said:

Can we get rid of firstborn CSM in 40k as well? I don't want to win the long war like this. Make CSM primaris, get it over with GW. 

 

We are already getting range refresh, there is no need.

[ShadowCore67]

Here me out on this...

 

The forgeworld 30k Outriders kit uses the plastic scout bike kit as a base. If the scout bikes are being discontinued....

 

Plastic 30k Outriders confirmed?

[MegaVolt87]

2 minutes ago, ShadowCore67 said:

Here me out on this...

 

The forgeworld 30k Outriders kit uses the plastic scout bike kit as a base. If the scout bikes are being discontinued....

 

Plastic 30k Outriders confirmed?

 

It's plausible, they are in the libers, not expanded units. It's going to be HH tank Thursday for a while yet, FW is still stacked with non LOW armoured units that need to go to plastic. 

[lansalt]

4 minutes ago, ShadowCore67 said:

Plastic 30k Outriders confirmed?

More like they're going to be OOP too, given their terrible stats and the recent plastic jetbikes.

[Final Sunn]

I wouldn't be surprised if we saw MK VII marines coming to Horus Heresy, and most (not all for obvious reasons) of the old 40k kits that are gone or going getting 30k releases.

 

Its my personal hunch that the second edition of the new Horus Heresy, or even a campaign update in the future, might be set during the siege of terra, when the loaylists had access to MK VII armour. Can easily see a box with one half of MK IV/V/VI with existing kits, and a the other being new MKVII kits and maybe a boxnaught.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

I just calculated up my points for raven guard. I've lost over 80% of my army for 40k to the retired slot.

[appiah4]

2 minutes ago, Dont-Be-Haten said:

I just calculated up my points for raven guard. I've lost over 80% of my army for 40k to the retired slot.

Cheer up, now you have the opportunity to re-purchase 80% of your army! Just like everyone kept saying you never would!

Edited July 24, 2023 by appiah4

[Orion]

8 minutes ago, Final Sunn said:

I wouldn't be surprised if we saw MK VII marines coming to Horus Heresy, and most (not all for obvious reasons) of the old 40k kits that are gone or going getting 30k releases.

 

Its my personal hunch that the second edition of the new Horus Heresy, or even a campaign update in the future, might be set during the siege of terra, when the loaylists had access to MK VII armour. Can easily see a box with one half of MK IV/V/VI with existing kits, and a the other being new MKVII kits and maybe a boxnaught.

Or do another Badab and release them as a niche armour mark through Forge World.

[Kallas]

3 minutes ago, Dont-Be-Haten said:

I just calculated up my points for raven guard. I've lost over 80% of my army for 40k to the retired slot.

Ouch, sorry.

 

For myself the vast majority of my Marines are Firstborn. I have some Intercessors and Phobos, but most of my stuff is Dreadnoughts, Firstborn vehicles and Firstborn infantry - not all of it is retired yet, but I'm sure it won't be long before Vanguard are replaced, Devastators retired once the Grav and Las Primaris heavy support are out, and whenever they retire Rhino chassis fully (from Marines at least).

[Marshal Reinhard]

Saw the writing on the wall years ago. Did take me until they dropped Calgar but realized then what was the way forward.

 

That said i genuinely think tacticals are safe as long as theyre one of the top 10 marine sellers.

[Astartes Consul]

18 minutes ago, ShadowCore67 said:

Here me out on this...

 

The forgeworld 30k Outriders kit uses the plastic scout bike kit as a base. If the scout bikes are being discontinued....

 

Plastic 30k Outriders confirmed?

 

Yeah I thought this too. Unlikely that GW will keep making the sprues just for the Outriders. 

[Iron Father Ferrum]

There's two TFCs, two Ironclads, and a Hunter/Stalker in the rotation for my Iron Hands test lists.

 

Well.  There were, at least.

[painting.for.my.sanity]

I have mixed feelings about this.

 

Some kits I'm really not going to miss (Hunter/Stalker, Thunderfire Cannon) and others either already have worthy successors (bikes to Outriders) or will be getting them soon (Assault Squads, Scouts) but I'm properly sad to see some of these go, even where they do have something of a decent successor - Ironclad Dreadnoughts and the Techmarine in Full Servo-Harness especially.

 

Others mark what I view as missed opportunities in the current range. Storm Speeders are just too big to feel like a proper Land Speeder replacement, and would have been better served in my opinion by a Sentinel-style modernisation. Similarly, Attack Bikes, whilst fething ugly, always give me a huge hit of nostalgia whereas the Invader ATV is just gross - imagine how much better it'd have been as a modernised bike/sidecar combo like this: https://www.instagram.com/p/Cl_7AvktRgn/.

 

This rather ties into my more general feelings about Primaris. In many ways, they've been a necessary modernisation, massively improving proportions and anatomy in particular. At the same time, the process has included too many misses and managed to engender too much ill-feeling amongst the community. I wish the modernisation of Space Marines as a whole had been something closer to what happened with the Black Templars release - aesthetic maintained well, squads updated practically 1-to-1, and weird codex bloat avoided. I can't help but think that people would be a lot happier if Intercessors had just been embiggened Tactical Squads, if Hellblasters, Infernus and suchlike were a reintroduction of Heresy-style Support Weapon Squads and if the Repulsor was the rediscovery of the fabled Anti-grav Land Raider.

[Orion]

7 minutes ago, Astartes Consul said:

 

Yeah I thought this too. Unlikely that GW will keep making the sprues just for the Outriders. 

As much as I think we could expect plastic outriders at some point, GW have produced (or had old stock) of sprues for certain sets.

The Manta still comes with old Crisis suits. 

[Dont-Be-Haten]

16 minutes ago, appiah4 said:

Cheer up, now you have the opportunity to re-purchase 80% of your army! Just like everyone kept saying you never would!

Worst part it's all painted. My thought is, if I want to participate in any sanctioned events in 40k or local tournaments I can counts-as everything that has a comparable unit. I.e. tacticals become intercessors, assault marines become new assault marines, and I port my tactical support squads over from 30k, i.e. plasma dudes are hellblasters, flamer boys the new infernus boys.

 

Silver lining... until they retire VVs all my jumpy dudes just swelled into the first company.

[siegfriedfr]

It's a good thing they keep on cleaning up firstborn kits, and remove the terrible bloat fest that is the Space Marine Codex.

 

It's a shame however that they think they have to be so coy about it. A long drawn out breakup is worse than a clean cut.

[Evil Eye]

56 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

Hopefully all these units are removed from the next codex. The datasheet numbers are significant and need to be reduced.

 

This can be done by both reducing the number of units and consolidating others.

You're not even being subtle anymore.

[Scribe]

2 minutes ago, siegfriedfr said:

It's a good thing they keep on cleaning up firstborn kits, and remove the terrible bloat fest that is the Space Marine Codex.

 

It's a shame however that they think they have to be so coy about it. A long drawn out breakup is worse than a clean cut.

 

You sure? After what they did to WHFB? After the absolute train wreck they have put the rules through over the last several editions? After AoS v1.0?

 

If they came out and said "OG marines are done and dusted, its the age of the Primaris" there would have been blood in the streets at GW HQ lol.

[Orange Knight]

2 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

You're not even being subtle anymore.

 

Don't misunderstand my comment. The only positive that can come from this is a more streamlined and less bloated codex.

 

There is no way that this ends in a way that will make everyone happy. 

I'm not invested in people being upset, my only hope is that eventually everyone will move on if they chose to remain in the hobby. Making this a longer process is only going to erode the enjoyment of people for longer.

[Squark]

Couple of observations;

 

Removing Firstborn Characters (including the command squad) and their extra options from the range allows them to be joined with their Tacticus Primaris counterpart, so we'll probably have a generic "Space Marine Captain/Chaplain/Librarian/Lieutenant/Apothecary/Ancient/Champion" datasheet who can join tactical marines and intercessors.

 

Land speeders, bikes, scouts, CC Dreadnoughts, and assault squads have all either had their refresh or will soon, at least as far as GW is concerned.

 

The expanded scout models use the old scout sculpts so GW definately wanted them gone.

 

That just leaves a few oddball units like Thunderfire Cannons and the AA rhinos. The former is a finecast model GW probably doesn't think needs a resculpt (especially since they just released some primaris indirect fire), and the latter are a relic of the 6th-7th edition when fliers were terrorizing everyone.

 

So the cuts make sense form the perspective of GW's bean counters. Personally, I mourn the Ironclad and consider the brutalis a woefully insufficient successor. The many excellent bits from the Command Squad are also a loss.

 

Unfortunately, all these kits have sold out in the US already, so if anyone here wanted them they're out of luck.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

3 hours ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

The assault squad likely has two nails in its coffin, one from any upcoming Primaris Jump pack unit, and a second from the MK VI Assault Squad for Horus Heresy. It's a victim of its own pricing at this point, any HH box will obviously need to have ten to make a full squad, but the Assault Squad has only five for $60 USD.

 

That said, I really do like the kit, and I may try to get a couple more boxes to fill out some squads.

This is possibly the most sensible take in a controversial warhammer related topic on the internet. Well done!

[Redcomet]

1 hour ago, Castellan Wulfrik said:

There was always a lot of talk that Primaris were designed to be for the 40K equivalent of 'AoS' but when AoS got the backlash it received and the Kirby leadership was replaced the new leadership cancelled the plans to 'AoS' 40K and instead repurposed the primaris sculpts and went with the soft-reset Indomitus timeline we have now. Ynnari are supposedly another remnant of the 'AoE' plans as a replacement to the three Eldar ranges, which makes sense considering they've got no idea what to do with them now. If you look at it from that perspective you can see the current situation wasn't planned from the beginning but was a poorly structured attempt at salvaging the mess of their original plans because they feared an even bigger backlash than AoS could potentially kill the game. As such I wouldn't consider there to have been a great conspiracy over the past several years in regards to replacing firstborn slowly, but rather the studio didn't know what to do with the mess and just kept kicking the can down the road they'd already paved. Primaris should have been binned alongside the Ynnari plans but alas here we are. 

 

If it makes people feel better I think it's inevitable firstborn units will return with new kits one day once Horus Heresy gets to The Scouring as long as they don't manage to kill off the game before then... but that could be at least a decade away. Hopefully one day we will see 30K become a home for historical 40K via expansions as well so everyone can enjoy the 40K they want. That's a bit more wishful thinking though, I don't trust GW to make sensible decisions. 

40k was never going to get the AoS treatment. 40k was a popular, well selling and profitable system. And a system with a lot of creative life left in it. Whfb was none of these

1 hour ago, Castellan Wulfrik said:

There was always a lot of talk that Primaris were designed to be for the 40K equivalent of 'AoS' but when AoS got the backlash it received and the Kirby leadership was replaced the new leadership cancelled the plans to 'AoS' 40K and instead repurposed the primaris sculpts and went with the soft-reset Indomitus timeline we have now. Ynnari are supposedly another remnant of the 'AoE' plans as a replacement to the three Eldar ranges, which makes sense considering they've got no idea what to do with them now. If you look at it from that perspective you can see the current situation wasn't planned from the beginning but was a poorly structured attempt at salvaging the mess of their original plans because they feared an even bigger backlash than AoS could potentially kill the game. As such I wouldn't consider there to have been a great conspiracy over the past several years in regards to replacing firstborn slowly, but rather the studio didn't know what to do with the mess and just kept kicking the can down the road they'd already paved. Primaris should have been binned alongside the Ynnari plans but alas here we are. 

 

If it makes people feel better I think it's inevitable firstborn units will return with new kits one day once Horus Heresy gets to The Scouring as long as they don't manage to kill off the game before then... but that could be at least a decade away. Hopefully one day we will see 30K become a home for historical 40K via expansions as well so everyone can enjoy the 40K they want. That's a bit more wishful thinking though, I don't trust GW to make sensible decisions. 

40k was never going to get the AoS treatment. 40k was a popular, well selling and profitable system. And a system with a lot of creative life left in it. Whfb was none of these

[Osteoclast]

How many players came in after 8th edition? It’s entirely possible that this may not affect most players. 
 

I’m definitely looking forward to the new scouts that this portends; the existing models have just always looked too dorky for me. 

[Evil Eye]

Just now, Orange Knight said:

 

Don't misunderstand my comment. The only positive that can come from this is a more streamlined and less bloated codex.

 

There is no way that this ends in a way that will make everyone happy. 

I'm not invested in people being upset, my only hope is that eventually everyone will move on if they chose to remain in the hobby. Making this a longer process is only going to erode the enjoyment of people for longer.

People shouldn't have to "move on". GW is making awful decisions and people are angry about it. If GW wants to not "erode the enjoyment of people" then they need to stop making stupid moves like axing the most iconic part of their IP for a Poochie-tier replacement and then lying about it.

 

Also it's not for GW to decide who remains in this hobby. It's also entirely possible to engage in the hobby without giving GW a single penny, between older rulebooks, second hand models, Forge World Russian Division and printer going brrrr. Which is a path I recommend everyone takes at this point; GW obviously doesn't give two gaks about us so I shouldn't be expected to give two gaks about them.

 

GW needs us, we don't need them. Bleed 'em dry at this point.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Off we go FB, quietly into the dark...

 

It was a good 35 years.