Legiones Tyranni - a Badab War-themed Epic project

[N1SB]

Fratres et Sorores, the soon-arriving Legions Imperialis uses Mk VI armour...so a few of us are thinking of using it for the Badab War.

 

The idea really came from our Warhammer Store manager.  Just to let you know, we just have a very simple idea:

 

• Re-purpose the Horus Heresy Epic-scale minis to reflect units and factions in the Badab War
• If there are things like Legion Tactics, most (maybe not all) Badab Chapters will follow their Founder Legions
• In special cases, there may be recommended alternatives; Carcharadons are Raven Guard Successors, but from the fluff they might be more similar to World Eaters, indeed, some Astral Claws kinda referred to them as such
• The Solar Auxilia could represent the Tyrant's Legion...the namesake for this project...or Inquisitional Auxiliaries
• It'll also be on a smaller scale than the apocalyptic battles of the Horus Heresy, we reckon

 

I've teamed up with our Warhammer Store manager before, I usually do a user-friendly 1-page write-up for the rules to be posted on the store's Facebook page and WhatsApp group.  Below in the spoilers is one such collaboration, for a 40k 9th ed special team-based game where each character controls just 1 Character model (to give you an idea of how simple & succinct we can be).  We'll update you on future developments.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 30, 2023 by N1SB

[nilsh]

That sounds like a very interesting project and I hope you'll post more about it.

[Marshal Rohr]

This is a genius idea, especially as the game expands into the later Heresy with Daemons and corrupted troops. Players can recreate a ton of the cool Loyalists vs Chaos battles pre-13th Black Crusade. 

[Urauloth]

I like it. Astral Claws heraldry would look great on the minis we've seen for the game so far, too.
Oh yeah, so would Salamanders, who were at Badab... oh no, I'm going to get sucked into this.

[Xin Ceithan]

Oh, this is really a great idea. I’ll be keeping a close eye on this! 

[Black Cohort]

this does seem like an interesting event to explore in 8mm.

[Mazer Rackham]

As something of an Astral Claws enjoyer myself, this idea is:

 

 

@Urauloth One of us! One of us!

[Cactus]

Oh you devil @N1SB. One of my friends already has some tiny scale Astral Claws and I told him not to tempt me into doing some Howling Griffons. You aren't helping!

[Guest]

@N1SB I am doing Ultramarines and Sons of Horus for HH. But I really think I should join you in this project :). Purely from a side view.

 

Going to make this a project on here too? :)

Edited July 31, 2023 by Brother Captain Arkley

[Trokair]

While there are several Legions I like, I never felt much pull to do any in 30k scale (hence why my 30k Marines are all some sort of splinter force).

 

I do however want to get into Epic, sorry Legiosiowhert Iperialhdafd, Epic, I’ll stick to Epic, as I already have a fair amount of Titanicus and Aeronautica.

 

As such, while I wait for Mechanicum to be released in Epic, I might as well do something with the Marines, and if I am not going to go Legion then Badab War might be a good place to set my marines in.

 

 

Obviously some schemes will be a tad difficult at that scale (looking at you Howling Griffons, I am not capable of doing quarters on so tiny things) others will hopefully be a bit easier.

 

The Grey and Black shoulder pads of Carcharodons should be manageable.

 

So what sort of forces did they have during the Badab War and where there any specific human forces they worked alongside with that I could use the Solar Auxiliar from the Epic Starter as.  

[Black Cohort]

I don't know about specifically mentioned forces, but presumably you could do them as either Inquisitorial storm troopers or some kind of elite void warfare regiment.

[LameBeard]

@Trokair I think we should give some prize to anyone who can do a Lamenters chequer-board pattern on the 8mm shoulder pads.

 

 

[Marshal Rohr]

Cities of Death mentioned specifically once the Star Phantoms brought down the shield around the Palace of Thorns multiple Legions of Inquisitorial Stormtroopers dropped in to assist.  Sounds like Veletarii to me. 

[Xin Ceithan]

It’ll be interesting to see if / what Legion specific rules will be applied 

to 30k Legions

and how these might be applied here… 

 

Having a sort of IG mortal meat shield for the Tyrant’s Legion would be neat…

 

weren’t the Lamenters known for their use of flyers? There is much more flat space for those checkers there ;)  

 

And IIRC the Executioners were famed for armoured warfare? 
 

I was musing about Knight Houses in the Badab War earlier.. this might be a fun way to field some of those cute little knight engines ! 

[Captain Idaho]

Interested to see what comes about from this. Do we think there would need to be much fundamental changes in stats?

 

What new units would be anticipated? I presume it would largely be limitations imposed?

[N1SB]

Good question, I'll ask our Warhammer manager how he wants to handle these, but knowing his style, my guess is:

 

No fundamental changes in unit stats.  He likes Rules As Written, if only because they're easier to refer to.  There's so many game systems now (40k 10th ed, 30k, Kill Team), it's confusing enough to just remember 1 set of rules.  Brother Rohr mentioned a future expansion in LI with Daemons, for example; well, that'd certainly make sense for the Badab was close to the Maelstrom warpstorm...actually, fighting off Daemons from there was the Astral Claws's main gig.

 

Example - he said he'll use the Rules As Written, EXCEPT he mused maybe he'll translate the old Forgeworld 40k (like 6th ed) Chapter Tactics for the Badab War into LI.  Remember there was that PDF file, some of them were like "just use the Ultramarines Chapter Tactics," but they fit the Chapters' themes.  The idea is, it's hard to keep in mind each unit stat tweak, but if it's an army-wide rule like a Chapter Tactic, that's easy to remember.

 

I've actually got my own questions about 2 topics: 1.) the size for these Badab War games and 2.) including Knights.  I'll check in with him this weekend.

[Captain Idaho]

The Badab war fluff was done at a time before the release of Knights I think, so it might be a bit scarce. 

 

Oh that subject, I don't remember any Titans mentioned in the background either. Not sure on that one.

 

Breachers, when the rules come out for them, will be good though as there were definitely Marines with boarding shields and it plays directly into the concept of the ship to ship fighting.

 

Destroyers could represent some of the more dirtier and desperate tactics involved perhaps? Or anti-Marines specialism?

[N1SB]

You're right, the only mention of Knights I came across was with the Red Scorpions's background prior to the Badab War.  Alan Bligh was making one of his little cameo Easter Egg references to the original Epic scale with that, I reckon.  So for a lore purist perspective, we may avoid Knights.

 

Gameplay-wise, it might be interesting to avoid Knights.  You know how having Knights may skew the game?  Like in HH 2.0 Dreads are really good, I can see a legit Gentlemen's Agreement between players not to field an All Dread Fury of the Ancients Rite of War for that reason.

 

(Actually, looking at the LI news, I do wonder if gameplay-wise it's really a Knight battle with just other units as pawns.  I dunno, but I do keep it in mind.)

 

On the other hand, lore-wise, there might be a really fun thematic reason to include Knights.  Knights, being nobility and more political and stuff, may have been in the Badab War, but the political stigma around it was such that they decided to rewrite themselves out of that history entirely.  Very fluffy.

 

+++

 

And your example of Breachers and especially Destroyers is exactly the type of thing that'll come up.

 

Just my spontaneous thoughts on this, the Astral Claws were closer to Badab citizenry than other Marines to their homeworlds.  In that particular example, maybe the Breachers were like the ultimate Riot Cops.  I know this is normally too lowly for Astartes, but that's how the Tyrant Huron enforced unquestioning loyalty to his Chapter.

 

As for Destroyers, again just to use Astral Claws as an example, they were hoarding all sorts of weaponry.  Like they had Exterminatus bioweapons up the yin yang.  Destroyer weapons are kinda along that vein, like you say, they fought dirty.

 

That's just 1 Chapter, but I also know the Warhammer manager's mentality on this: give the players their toys...they'll come up with their own lore.  And we should.

[N1SB]

Having spoken with our Warhammer Store manager, he has a very good take, so this is a short update to confirm a lot of the above.

 

 

+++ If it's in the game, it's in the game +++

 

 

Regarding future releases, like Breachers and Destroyers, he didn't just give a response, he gave a reaction.  As soon as I asked about Breachers, he's like:

 

"Oh yeah!  Astral Claws had that Elite unit that uses Boarding Shields, that's how I'll be including Breachers."

 

What he's describing are the Astral Claws's special Retaliator Squad.  They're featured in the artwork with a Boarding Shield...that's his Breachers.

 

That's him talking about his project and tells you about his whole design philosophy.  If it's in the game, it's in the game, he's already planning his own usage.

 

 

+++ Same thing applies to Titans +++

 

 

In the same vein, he reckons people would want Titans.  Mecha is big here, because we got a Gundam/Gunpla culture.

 

 

+++ Re-map Legion Tactics to Recommended Chapter Tactics +++

 

 

Badab Chapters would probably follow their Founding Legion/genesire's Legion Tactics, but it's a recommendation, leave some leeway.  Because of examples like Carcharadons are technically Raven Guard, but they're more known for the melee, so maybe a melee Legion Tactic like the Space Wolves's would actually be closer.

 

 

+++ Finally, smaller games, at least to start...might end up by default +++

 

 

He sees this as a side project and, at least to start, he'll keep it small, like 1 Formation at 1500 pts.

 

So overall, it's a Keep It Simple, Small (KISS) situation.  When I got time I'll start doing a 1-pager, something our own meta could share in WhatsApp, so don't expect too much.  Once we got some models to play, this might be really cool.  I do think a breakout thing will involve the actual Tyrant's Legion (using Solar Auxilia models); there's a lot of creative space to work with there.

[Captain Idaho]

The beauty of Titans in LI is they'll be a centrepiece rather than the pure focus. So a strong Astartes force with a single Warlord in support feels thematic still for Badab war.

 

And logically if it was modernised by GW, they'd include Knights and definitely Titans to be involved somehow most likely.

 

Even a couple Titans being fought over by the warring factions makes sense too, since they'd be huge assets excusing the pun.

[Pacific81]

Fantastic idea for a project! Looking forward to seeing how it develops.

[Trokair]

So, with LI almost upon us anybody planed or thougtht further on this?

[N1SB]

Thanks for asking, I myself have to check, as we've been focused on our 40k Crusade campaign

[N1SB]

I checked in at the store today, we have not received the rulebook yet.  All we got are tiny baby Rhinos.

 

But we're eager to do something with Epic Badab War, we'll let you know.  However, we do need time to at least digest the rules and get some games in, so probably won't hear anything concrete from us until Christmas?  The sticky point right now are the very close combat oriented unknown/chimeric geneseed Chapters, like do they all Counts-As World Eaters?  That sort of thing.