Considering Space Wolves for my first army

[Icthius]

Hello. I have been out of the tabletop game for some time now due to the birth of my son and covid, but it appears that warmachine has finally died( was strong where I lived pre covid, but non existent where I live now). I have always loved the lore of 40k and space wolves are at the top of my list of thematic armies. Years ago at the NOVA open I saw someone with space wolf themed imperial knights and from that point until now I’ve always had interest in doing a combined army of space wolves and imperial knights. I’d love to fit a astra militarum big tank into a list with space wolves but from the rules I’ve read that doesn’t seem viable. So as it stands I’m looking at doing a list something like this:

 

Knight Warden

Arminger Helverin

 Impulsor

     Ragnar Blackmane

     Assault Intercessors

Eliminator Squad x2

Primaris Techmarine x3

Murderfang

Space Wolves Venerable Dread x3

 

The thought behind the list is that the warden and his helverin can sit back throwing lead down range, the impulsor can deliver blackmane and his squad to take an enemy objective while the venerable dreadnaughts hold the center of the table while the tech marines keep them healthy until the enemy doesn’t have anything big enough to deal with murderfang and then you unleash him. Eliminators would focus fire threats to your heavy units. The hope is that between the dreadnaughts and the knight you’ve got enough beef on the table to have staying power and forcing the opponent to either try to take out the dreadnaughts or the knight as quickly as they can but hopefully not have enough big hitters to deal with both. 
 

since I’ve never played 40k I have no idea if this is a sound strategy, but I’m hoping to get some feedback from the veterans around here. Thanks in advance. 

 

 

 

[Wolf Guard Dan]

Welcome to the Aett!

 

I think that is a good start for an army. Since you’re starting from scratch you should know tenth edition is a shooting edition. Close combat is still important but an emphasis on shooting is recommended.

 

In the Imperial Knights Index you can only take one titanic imperial knight or 3 Armigers. So you wouldn’t be able to field the big knight and the baby knights together outside of house games. 

[Icthius]

I was just reading the rule about allied knights after I posted this. I had o my heard the rule on a YouTube video and not read it and thought they had said a big knight AND 3 small knights, not OR. Certainly makes the list weaker since the -1 to damage for the warden from the bondsman buff certainly enhances its staying power. 
 

Any recommendations on what would be good to replace the helverin with? Long fangs came to mind, but that puts me 5 points over 2000. 
 

I do realize that 10th is shooting heavy from what I’ve read, that’s why I figured that 3 venerable dreads with a 4+ invuln with a techmarine that can’t be shot at from more than 12” standing behind them would make great bullet sponges while the warden and eliminators provide covering fire. Between the 18 attacks from the wardens gun and sweep attacks of the dreads I’ve got horde clearing while the eliminators can deal with heavy armor. Is there anything in that 145 point spot that maybe is a tank killer with a melta or lascannon that might fit well?

[TiguriusX]

What has priority for you...

 

(a) hobby and rule of cool; or

(b) competition

 

Advice really depends on your desires

 

 

In the meantime i would remove the SW venerables and replace with Wulfen dreads having a blizzard shield

 

The invulnerable save might keep them alive

 

The same models you use for dreads can usually pass for wulfen dreads

[Karhedron]

If taking a Freeblade Knight to accompany Wolves, I probably would not take a Warden as it's shooting is primarily anti-infantry and that is not something Wolves normally lack. A good option for a Freeblade is actaully Canis Rex (even the name fits ). He has a WS and BS of 2+, a variable setting weapons and some good special rules that do not require interaction with an Armiger. Then you can use these cool parts to make yours look a bit more wolfy. 

 

https://ironwolfminis.com/collections/mini-knight

 

[Karhedron]

35 minutes ago, Icthius said:

Is there anything in that 145 point spot that maybe is a tank killer with a melta or lascannon that might fit well?

 

The Gladiator Lancer is a pretty good tank hunter and costs exactly 145 points IIRC. 

 

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

I was also going to suggest the Lancer as a perfect replacement. It is indeed 145 points

 

Canis Rex also has some really cool rules and lore and is thematically pretty space wolfy, so I would vote there too or if you want even more shooting there's always the knight crusader with dual ranged weapons. Not sure if you have the points to squeeze one in though.

 

The issue I see is the 3 techmarines, they are sitting ducks without a squad to hide in. Might even want to consider a ride for them too like an Impulsor. Unfortunately their squad choices aren't super awesome as they just get intercessors or assault Intercessors.

[Icthius]

51 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

If taking a Freeblade Knight to accompany Wolves, I probably would not take a Warden as it's shooting is primarily anti-infantry and that is not something Wolves normally lack. A good option for a Freeblade is actaully Canis Rex (even the name fits ). He has a WS and BS of 2+, a variable setting weapons and some good special rules that do not require interaction with an Armiger. Then you can use these cool parts to make yours look a bit more wolfy. 

 

https://ironwolfminis.com/collections/mini-knight

 

This model or one similar is the one I saw at the NOVA open. It’s exactly what I planned to do to mine. The warden does make less sense when you can’t bring a bondsman for the -1 to damage. 

[Icthius]

26 minutes ago, Rune Priest Jbickb said:

I was also going to suggest the Lancer as a perfect replacement. It is indeed 145 points

 

The issue I see is the 3 techmarines, they are sitting ducks without a squad to hide in. Might even want to consider a ride for them too like an Impulsor. Unfortunately their squad choices aren't super awesome as they just get intercessors or assault Intercessors.

I’ll check out the lancer when I get home.  You don’t think being screened by the dreads and the lone operator rule will be enough to keep them alive?

[TiguriusX]

12 minutes ago, Icthius said:

I’ll check out the lancer when I get home.  You don’t think being screened by the dreads and the lone operator rule will be enough to keep them alive?

 

 

Techmarines dont do anything useful im afraid.

 

Dedicated anti tank units kill anything you have...so repairs wont matter.

 

The techmarines will just give up easy assassination points if the card is drawn.

 

If you want +1 to hit get incursors and strategic reserve them

 

[Icthius]

17 minutes ago, TiguriusX said:

 

 

Techmarines dont do anything useful im afraid.

 

Dedicated anti tank units kill anything you have...so repairs wont matter.

 

The techmarines will just give up easy assassination points if the card is drawn.

 

If you want +1 to hit get incursors and strategic reserve them

 

Since the lancer would be too much at 145 with changing the warden to Rex how about sky claws with a lieutenant to try eliminating anti tank units from deep strike? That’s 135 and fits right in. Again, I’ve never played 40k so I’m just trying to figure things out. 

[TiguriusX]

19 minutes ago, Icthius said:

Since the lancer would be too much at 145 with changing the warden to Rex how about sky claws with a lieutenant to try eliminating anti tank units from deep strike? That’s 135 and fits right in. Again, I’ve never played 40k so I’m just trying to figure things out. 

if you want to eliminate enemy DS you need infiltrators.  Special rule is no DS within 12"....and it is powerful

 

I never play with less than 2 of them

 

 

However...anti tank doesnt need to get close

 

Many units have towering (like Rex will have) and can see and shoot 48+ inches across the table.

 

Play some practice games with proxies (soda cans can be models etc.) or go digital with tabletop simulator (TTS) before spending $ and investing time to build/paint

 

 

I posted 2 games you can watch on youtube here

 

1st v GSC shows power of infiltrators

2nd v Aeldari shows ranged anti tank and LOS

 

https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/379565-saga-of-the-season-7-invitational/#comment-5977706

 

 

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Techmarines don't have lone operative

[Icthius]

8 minutes ago, Rune Priest Jbickb said:

Techmarines don't have lone operative

Yes, they do

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Oh wow I totally missed that ability, my bad. That will make them more survivable. Still not sure if 3 is the right call especially because all the vehicles are so much faster than the tech so you'll have to slow them down to keep him in 3 but that is actually much more usable than I realized.

[Icthius]

58 minutes ago, Rune Priest Jbickb said:

Oh wow I totally missed that ability, my bad. That will make them more survivable. Still not sure if 3 is the right call especially because all the vehicles are so much faster than the tech so you'll have to slow them down to keep him in 3 but that is actually much more usable than I realized.

they’re both speed 6. The reason I went with the primaris over the iron priest is the bolter they have a 24” 3 attack BS 2+ bolter( re-rolling 1s from dread aura) so they can shoot at something once the dreads are engaged. I’d likely try to have murderfang positioned within 3” of them as well in case the venerable in front of them gets destroyed. If the venerable are getting shot off the table in one round the techmarines certainly lose value, but the hope is that they have enough testing power to where I can repair a few rounds. At toughness 9, 2+ save, 4+ invuln and 8 wounds I’d hope 1-2 rounds of pumping 2-3 wounds back into them keeps my opponent busy while my other forces cause havoc. At the end of the day they are my bullet sponge to hopefully keep people from shooting at murderfang and Rex, so if they are shot off the table quickly it’s likely that murderfang and Rex were not shot at. If I can get murderfang engaged in melee in the middle of the table and Rex is sitting on a control point laying down fire while I’ve successfully eliminated their ability to deal with heavy armor as they chewed through 3 venerable dreads than my plan is going swimmingly. If any of the techmarines have survived to get behind murderfang their in for a bad time with the murder maker rule. 

[TiguriusX]

1 hour ago, Icthius said:

they’re both speed 6. The reason I went with the primaris over the iron priest is the bolter they have a 24” 3 attack BS 2+ bolter( re-rolling 1s from dread aura) so they can shoot at something once the dreads are engaged. I’d likely try to have murderfang positioned within 3” of them as well in case the venerable in front of them gets destroyed. If the venerable are getting shot off the table in one round the techmarines certainly lose value, but the hope is that they have enough testing power to where I can repair a few rounds. At toughness 9, 2+ save, 4+ invuln and 8 wounds I’d hope 1-2 rounds of pumping 2-3 wounds back into them keeps my opponent busy while my other forces cause havoc. At the end of the day they are my bullet sponge to hopefully keep people from shooting at murderfang and Rex, so if they are shot off the table quickly it’s likely that murderfang and Rex were not shot at. If I can get murderfang engaged in melee in the middle of the table and Rex is sitting on a control point laying down fire while I’ve successfully eliminated their ability to deal with heavy armor as they chewed through 3 venerable dreads than my plan is going swimmingly. If any of the techmarines have survived to get behind murderfang their in for a bad time with the murder maker rule. 

 

This is an example of theory v gameplay

 

Get practice games in

 

My experience is murderfang should be reserved and sent in using RAPID INGRESS.
Anything else and he is dead before he gets close.

 

Anti tank is a point of emphasis right now...people are filling their armies with tools to counter knights.

The dreads and vehicles you are using are childs play for dedicated anti tank

 

[DanPesci]

On 8/1/2023 at 10:09 PM, TiguriusX said:

 

 

 

In the meantime i would remove the SW venerables and replace with Wulfen dreads having a blizzard shield

 

The invulnerable save might keep them alive

 

The same models you use for dreads can usually pass for wulfen dreads

 

 

Id second this, I like the SW ven but the reason to take them is they hand out a reroll buff to other astartes infantry units nearby, so taking multiple of them isnt really needed/useful  in this case. 

e.g. I have one in my list but it tries to stay out of sight in the backfield (otherwise even with the inv its easily brought down), it buffs my long fangs, and then is there to counter charge anything that gets close to my lines/deepstrikes.

 

The wulfen dread is just as survivable (with the blizz shield) and does just as much damage in combat for a bit less points if you want some dreads to throw up the table alongside your knights.