Black Library fiction The End and the Death - Volume III

[Doghouse]

That's what any rational person would do.

 

 

 

 

So no. 

 

 

[Guest Triszin]

The way gw can do a win win for fans and hurt scalpers?

 

Announce a Le print made to order run.

Makes the resale value plummet short term.

 

Allows everyone that wants a copy the chance to get a copy even if it's in 180 days.

 

If you want it signed then have the authors go to Warhammer world events to do signings.

[Firedrake Cordova]

43 minutes ago, Stitch5000 said:

I imagine not to great profit... Or its just a lot of hard work to pull off, and is placed out of the control of GW themselves. Relying on a third party to fulfil things you have already taken payment for is a BIG NERVOUS situation. 

Realistically, we'll never know unless they itemise it in their annual reports. However, given that we know that GW won't do anything unless they perceive there's sufficient money to be made (opportunity cost, etc), and the fact that they've done it multiple times (Ciaphas Cain, Horus Heresy, Rogue Trader, Gaunt's Ghosts, Inferno), one could be forgiven for making assumptions.  

 

But, either way, the current situation is not exactly satisfactory, from a consumer point of view.  All we can do is hope GW will do something to remedy that...

Edited January 25 by Firedrake Cordova

[Bryan Blaire]

9 hours ago, Halandaar said:

Like when McDonalds were successfully sued for serving hot coffee? You'll have to forgive me for not taking "what can you be sued for in America" as the gold standard for who takes the blame in a situation where one party is actively trying to disrupt the operations of the other for their own financial gain.

I won’t forgive you anything - I didn’t pick the poor analogy.    You can’t just deflect by claiming a different analogy and making a play about societal norms that aren’t yours - the analogy was flawed and able to have holes poked in it.  I wasn’t the one saying that the situations were actually similar (you and others were), I was showing how the analogy doesn’t immediately remove blame from GW by illustrating that, in similar situations, a portion of this global society that exists on this very board would be able to look at the company as having fault.

 

I had even written into my response how the situations were already different, indicating that I understood that it wasn’t a good comparison, even if those proposing it didn’t.

 

———————————————

 

There are two sets of “injured party” here - GW is not the only one.  They are one, but not the only.  They are not blameless.  They did not follow through on their implied promise through statements of fairness.

 

People can complain that they did as much as they could, but they are the ones that made the statements, so GW is the one that has the burden of following through on it.  This wasn’t some kind of sophisticated hacking job where no one could figure out what was going on because it all happened like ghosts in the background.  That they didn’t even change their response that allowed the original situation and it happened in the same way again, possibly even more extreme, is pretty indicative of them “not doing enough.”

 

That also doesn’t absolve blame from the scalpers - obviously they were acting with what I assume the British would term “very poor behavior.”  I would think that they would be liable to be brought up on charges if it could be proven that they criminally acted against GW’s lawful commerce site - I feel like that is probably a crime in the UK.  That is obviously something that shows blame for the scalpers actions.

 

Finally, some could probably blame those that buy material goods at scalper prices.  I don’t - I spend money on things that others probably feel is frivolous.  I do think that spending money with scalpers just encourages further behavior, but I don’t blame the people spending the money - it’s their money and if it is spent on something they value, that’s up to them.  I wouldn’t spend the kind of money that will apparently be spent on scalped Black Library writing, but I don’t value limited editions of writing enough anyway, and definitely not Black Library, but I don’t knock those that do.

 

Ultimately, I feel for those who were trying to get these limited editions who are fans wanting to collect something really nice that they enjoy who were let down and shoved out of the legitimate chance to do so fairly - I don’t have to agree with their choices to do that - I can still feel for them.  They are the ultimate wronged party here - GW will obviously be fine (although I don’t mind them taken down a reputation peg or two), and the scalpers will either be forced to eat losses or will profit, but those that were kept from a valued part of their own collection, those are the folks I feel for.

Edited January 25 by Bryan Blaire

[Joe]

11 minutes ago, Triszin said:

The way gw can do a win win for fans and hurt scalpers?

 

Announce a Le print made to order run.

Makes the resale value plummet short term.

 

Allows everyone that wants a copy the chance to get a copy even if it's in 180 days.

 

If you want it signed then have the authors go to Warhammer world events to do signings.

 

If they do that they'll have to drop the signatures from the MtO books entirely, which does take away some of the value. I'm not sure giving the authors repetitive strain injuries from signing 10,000 plus volumes is a good idea imo.

It'd be nice to arrange more in-person signings, however that's reliant on the authors being able to travel to WHW. And they come from all over (see: ADB in Ireland).

[darkhorse0607]

46 minutes ago, Etruscan said:

Can we assume GW are going to save face and not cancel scalper orders again despite obviously knowing they’ve been outwitted?

 

Yeah I can't imagine we will see a WHC article soon with 

"End and the Death Part 3 Pre Orders again!

Hey guys, we heard there were more scalpers *insert some puns about tech magi that probably shouldn't be in a serious article where consumers are irritated* so we are giving you ANOTHER chance to buy the same book! Same system as before! Good luck ok thanks bye!"

[StraightSilver]

I honestly think they will cancel the orders, take the losses and sell them at Warhammer World......

[Guest Triszin]

6 minutes ago, Joe said:

 

If they do that they'll have to drop the signatures from the MtO books entirely, which does take away some of the value. I'm not sure giving the authors repetitive strain injuries from signing 10,000 plus volumes is a good idea imo.

It'd be nice to arrange more in-person signings, however that's reliant on the authors being able to travel to WHW. And they come from all over (see: ADB in Ireland).

It's why I stated have the authors attend the events if you want it signed.

[Felix Antipodes]

I think that was the idea put forward.  The limited edition (signed) remains set at 2500, but they then do a special edition (MTO, not signed) in the same dressing as the LE.

 

In the end, there are only 2500 copies available for a world-wide audience.  You would think the 2500 who (maybe) have all previous LE would be the ones competing against the scalpers, but I reckon there was a lot more than that pounding the website.

[crimsondave]

I don’t see the issue with doing mto before you book the printing.  If you have to wait a year, it beats not getting it.  Also, offer an optional charge of $10 extra for the signature that all goes to the author.  I bet they wouldn’t mind signing 10,000 copies for that.  Spend a week signing books for $100,000 sounds ok to me.

Edited January 25 by crimsondave

[Sword Brother Adelard]

44 minutes ago, crimsondave said:

I don’t see the issue with doing mto before you book the printing.  If you have to wait a year, it beats not getting it.  Also, offer an optional charge of $10 extra for the signature that all goes to the author.  I bet they wouldn’t mind signing 10,000 copies for that.  Spend a week signing books for $100,000 sounds ok to me.

Because think of Dan Abnett's wrist?

 

The way they do these signed books is they print them, send the pages that the author signs to the author, the author signs them, (it took ADB 10 straight hours to sign the LE pages in EoE), then they send them back to the printers, who bind them in.

 

Some book companies have the author sign the finished books, in which case it can take several people to break down the tasks of picking out the book, opening it to the correct page, author signs, person takes book and repeat.

 

[Bryan Blaire]

47 minutes ago, crimsondave said:

I don’t see the issue with doing mto before you book the printing.  If you have to wait a year, it beats not getting it.  Also, offer an optional charge of $10 extra for the signature that all goes to the author.  I bet they wouldn’t mind signing 10,000 copies for that.  Spend a week signing books for $100,000 sounds ok to me.

I would think that is probably more money than the authors are making from it right now anyway.

[StraightSilver]

Yeah, that is way more than BL authors get paid......

 

As someone that used to work in the book trade (many years ago) I'm actually surprised the BL authors actually sign physical copies of the books, This means the author either has to come in and sign, or the books are sent to them to sign.

Most big publishers use plates for their signed copies - this just sticks into the front page of the book. This means the publisher could send (for example) 5,000 plates, to Dan Abnett, who could sign them at their leisure from home, these then get sent back and stored and when BL want to produce a signed edition, when it comes back from the printer somebody at BL just inserts the plates.

It's not as nice as a physically signed copy but it is better for author, publisher, environment etc and means if they wanted to do MTO but didn't have numbers up front they could send the plates off before the book is back from the printers.

Edited January 25 by StraightSilver

[crimsondave]

29 minutes ago, Sword Brother Adelard said:

Because think of Dan Abnett's wrist?

 

The way they do these signed books is they print them, send the pages that the author signs to the author, the author signs them, (it took ADB 10 straight hours to sign the LE pages in EoE), then they send them back to the printers, who bind them in.

 

Some book companies have the author sign the finished books, in which case it can take several people to break down the tasks of picking out the book, opening it to the correct page, author signs, person takes book and repeat.

 

None of that is a hurdle not easily overcome.  Brick layers lay bricks every day.  If DA can’t spend a few hours a day for a week or two signing pages for $10k per thousand pages he needs to seek medical attention.

[DemonGSides]

There's plenty of videos of Brandon Sanderson signing thousands of copies of his books and he obliterates any BL writer on popularity no contest.  I think Abnett could sign some more books if that were the actual contention. 

[DukeLeto69]

URN linked to a physical address. Only one per address. When logging into presale you need that two factor identification. 

[skylerboodie]

Do people really care that much about the signature though? I can't see many people wanting The End and the Death Volume 3 special edition because of a pen squiggle on page 3, surely its far more the physical book presentation itself, looking nice on the shelf with the rest of the collection. Unsigned/unnumbered made to order new print run that is paid up front and takes X months to deliver seems the simplest solution for this whole debacle. 

[Matcap86]

36 minutes ago, skylerboodie said:

Do people really care that much about the signature though? I can't see many people wanting The End and the Death Volume 3 special edition because of a pen squiggle on page 3, surely its far more the physical book presentation itself, looking nice on the shelf with the rest of the collection. Unsigned/unnumbered made to order new print run that is paid up front and takes X months to deliver seems the simplest solution for this whole debacle. 

 

Yup give me the fancy book and I'll just squiggle Dan's autograph in there myself. Even put in a lovely little note addressed to myself.

[Balthamal]

6 hours ago, Felix Antipodes said:

I think that was the idea put forward.  The limited edition (signed) remains set at 2500, but they then do a special edition (MTO, not signed) in the same dressing as the LE.

 

In the end, there are only 2500 copies available for a world-wide audience.  You would think the 2500 who (maybe) have all previous LE would be the ones competing against the scalpers, but I reckon there was a lot more than that pounding the website.

 

I'm low key annoyed at the people who have 2 or 3 out of the 12 frantically trying to nab one - like admit defeat or just bite the bullet and buy the full set someone decides to cash in on

[phandaal]

2 hours ago, Matcap86 said:

 

Yup give me the fancy book and I'll just squiggle Dan's autograph in there myself. Even put in a lovely little note addressed to myself.

 

"Matcap86 is the greatest human in the history of humans, maybe ever. If I had a son, I would want him to be just like Matcap86. Every day I wake up and ask the Emperor to make me just a little bit more like Matcap86. Love- Dan"

 

What do you mean "did he write all that??" It's right there on paper!

[Vazzy]

57 minutes ago, Balthamal said:

 

I'm low key annoyed at the people who have 2 or 3 out of the 12 frantically trying to nab one - like admit defeat or just bite the bullet and buy the full set someone decides to cash in on

 

Lol I had the same experience when people I know said they "had" to have this one. Like cmon man. Some of us have been here from the start. It's petty I know but I couldn't help myself. 

[Kastor Krieg]

13 hours ago, Lord_Ikka said:

Quick off-topic aside, but the McDonald's "Hot Coffee" lawsuit was not really a frivolous one. The woman in it received third-degree burns and required skin grafts/two years of medical care. There wouldn't have been a lawsuit if McDonald's had paid her 20k medical bills, but because they didn't, they wound up paying over 600k (originally the jury awarded the plaintiff 2.7mil, but it was reduced by the judge). The publicity and popular comments at the time labelled it a frivolous suit, but most legal scholars view it as a good suit. Personally, my opinion is that if Mickey D's had just paid the 20k they would have got off much lighter. 

Also, it was not "hot coffee". Hot coffee is supposed to be served at a certain temperature (I believe something like 65-70C), while her burns were cause by scalding hot water, at almost boiling point (95-100C). The problem wasn't hot coffee, but McD's failure at safety procedures when serving food to the customers.

[Kastor Krieg]

7 hours ago, darkhorse0607 said:

 

Yeah I can't imagine we will see a WHC article soon with 

"End and the Death Part 3 Pre Orders again!

Hey guys, we heard there were more scalpers *insert some puns about tech magi that probably shouldn't be in a serious article where consumers are irritated* so we are giving you ANOTHER chance to buy the same book! Same system as before! Good luck ok thanks bye!"

What GW should do now to save face and mess with scalpers is announce the LEs going into regular, non-preorder, sale sometime in - let's say - mid-March. Everyone who wants one, gets one.

This drops the scalper prices on eBay by A LOT. Whoever wants one from them, buys it. GW cancels the orders of scalpers as well, so some of those auctions will vanish soon enough. Reprints and copies reclaimed from scalpers get sold mid-March. Everyone wins.

[Nova-V]

10 hours ago, Kastor Krieg said:

Also, it was not "hot coffee". Hot coffee is supposed to be served at a certain temperature (I believe something like 65-70C), while her burns were cause by scalding hot water, at almost boiling point (95-100C). The problem wasn't hot coffee, but McD's failure at safety procedures when serving food to the customers.

Yep I hate this myth still exists that Americans sue for coffee being hot as it's simply not true (and I'm not from the US).  It also came out in the trial that that particular restaurant had been warned by safety inspectors several times before for serving hot drinks at dangerous temperatures.  So not only did they was the suit successful due to the danger they put her in but also it wasn't simply a one off mistake they had been warned and it was avoidable.

 

Sorry for OT.

 

Back OT I think part of the issue on Weds for GW was they seemed to have a successful weekend previously with the Deathwing box.  The Captacha and hard opening time seemed to stop the rolling flood of bots.  Everyone I know who wanted one got one and they had a reasonably easy time doing so.  Now this may have been down to more stock and lack of demand coupled with the change in tactics catching out the scalpers who couldn't adapt on Saturday morning.  However giving the scalpers two days to prepare they clearly were able to circumnavigate the newly adapted que.  It left GW again caught out.

[skylerboodie]

Well scalpers would've had a weeks notice on Deathwing Assault box from Sunday preview. Ultimately it's the product itself;  for Deathwing, the minis will be available again soon individually so no demand to pay multiple times their value from scalpers. [No one really cares that much about the special edition codexes.] For Black Library limited editions, once they're gone, that's it - you won't be able to get that edition again in future.