Reivers in 10th question...

[Forté]

Now, I have heard that they're not worth using... however, I've been given some and as I'm on a budget plan to try and use them along with a Lt in Phobos to give them the extra leader ability he gives. Plus, I like deep strikers with skull masks.

 

The question really breaks down to:

Which weapon do you find work better. Pistol or Carbine?

 

Of course I'll add the grav chute and grapnel. 

 

TIA

[Sea Creature]

They have precision, carbines and can deep strike. They can trash an GSC HQ.

[TheNicronomicon]

2 hours ago, Sea Creature said:

They have precision, carbines and can deep strike. They can trash an GSC HQ.

Especially with the Phobos LT—deep strike, precision, lethal hits, plus a d6” move after shooting. Not bad!

Their other loadout is better in assault and if you’re trying key off the battleshock mechanic, but then you’d probably also want the Reiver LT instead. 

[Tacitus]

If you want to play the Battle Shock game, they're one of the keys

[Forté]

So the key is to put the right Lt with the squad based on equipment.

 

Phobos Lt for carbine and shooting. Reiver Lt for CC and battle-shock.

 

That actually makes sense.

[CCE1981]

I think that the Phobos Lt is better for the Battleshock game if you are Deep Striking, in a transport the Reiver Lt.  You cannot Deep Strike with the Reiver LT for one, but if you use Strategic Reserves again you run into a problem, if you fail the charge your unit is still too far away to affect Leadership values, the Phobos Lt allows your unit to get close enough to your opponent for the Leadership debuff to matter 2/3rds the time after shooting, and significantly increases the chance of getting the charge. 

 

It is not just an effective 3d6" charge, it is 1d6" with a CP re-roll, AND a 2d6" with another CP re-roll, because you are in two different phases.  Yes, 2 CPs is expensive, but the option is still there.  

[Forté]

1 hour ago, CCE1981 said:

I think that the Phobos Lt is better for the Battleshock game if you are Deep Striking, in a transport the Reiver Lt.  You cannot Deep Strike with the Reiver LT for one, but if you use Strategic Reserves again you run into a problem, if you fail the charge your unit is still too far away to affect Leadership values, the Phobos Lt allows your unit to get close enough to your opponent for the Leadership debuff to matter 2/3rds the time after shooting, and significantly increases the chance of getting the charge. 

 

It is not just an effective 3d6" charge, it is 1d6" with a CP re-roll, AND a 2d6" with another CP re-roll, because you are in two different phases.  Yes, 2 CPs is expensive, but the option is still there.  

 

Options are always good to have.

[TheNicronomicon]

Reiver LT doesn’t have deep strike (super weird! He’s the only guy in the unit who doesn’t get issued a grav chute?) but does expand the BS aura. 
Reiver LT probably works best leading Hounds of Morkai right now. 

[Forté]

2 hours ago, TheNicronomicon said:

Reiver LT doesn’t have deep strike (super weird! He’s the only guy in the unit who doesn’t get issued a grav chute?) but does expand the BS aura. 
Reiver LT probably works best leading Hounds of Morkai right now. 

Well, I won't be using him then. Doing Crimson Fists.

[Tacitus]

Reiver LT is one of the best reasons to ask GW why an LT can't join with a Libby in a squad.  Making Reivers scarier with a LT and Lone Operative would be a nice little gimmick. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

What battleshock game is this? Denying melee defensive strats? Or is it to spend 150 points to change the LD by 1 for when you manage to reduce below half, while needing a successful charge to even proc it?

 

Also you can't command reroll the Phobos lt d6.

[Tacitus]

You can lean into the Battleshock tests and modifiers - Reivers, Terminator Assault Squads, Whirlwind, Infernus Squads and such to force multiple Battleshock tests with a modifier.

[Paladin777]

The problem with forcing your opponent to take battleshock tests in your turn is that all it does is prevent them from using strategems.

 

It can come in handy, but overall just isn't all that useful. 

 

The rare abilities that force battleshock tests in their command phase (and give penalties) are much more useful. 

[Tacitus]

2 hours ago, Paladin777 said:

The problem with forcing your opponent to take battleshock tests in your turn is that all it does is prevent them from using strategems.

 

It can come in handy, but overall just isn't all that useful. 

 

The rare abilities that force battleshock tests in their command phase (and give penalties) are much more useful. 

Yeah morale is still the third cousin of play styles.  But I've played with offensive Strats in my plan because of this too - a lot of people have made noises that make it sound like they're going to lean heavily into the devensive ones.

[Galron]

21 hours ago, TheNicronomicon said:

Reiver LT doesn’t have deep strike (super weird! He’s the only guy in the unit who doesn’t get issued a grav chute?) but does expand the BS aura. 
Reiver LT probably works best leading Hounds of Morkai right now. 

Why would you put an LT in a hounds squad? His lethal hits ability nerfs their inbred Devastating Hits ability.

[TheNicronomicon]

1 hour ago, Galron said:

Why would you put an LT in a hounds squad? His lethal hits ability nerfs their inbred Devastating Hits ability.

Nope, that’s right. I really hate how non-synergistic that ends up being. 
FWIW Hounds encourages you to run the Reiver LT (he expands the range of Howl of Morkai to 18”. It forces a battleshock test with a -1 penalty for any unit with a psyker in it, and if they fail in addition to being BSed they are also Stunned until your next turn. Without the Reiver LT it’s a 12” range.) No idea why GE set it up that way. 

[Tacitus]

14 hours ago, TheNicronomicon said:

Nope, that’s right. I really hate how non-synergistic that ends up being. 
FWIW Hounds encourages you to run the Reiver LT (he expands the range of Howl of Morkai to 18”. It forces a battleshock test with a -1 penalty for any unit with a psyker in it, and if they fail in addition to being BSed they are also Stunned until your next turn. Without the Reiver LT it’s a 12” range.) No idea why GE set it up that way. 

That's interesting.  I was suspecting BS would be a DA thing given their Det/History, but it looks like SW can do it offensively in a really nasty manner.

Partner Hounds with a Reiver LT, with a normal Reiver Squad for the -1 inside 6".  Two different rules will pop a -2 on the test turning nearly 84% (basically a 2+) success for Ld5+ to about 60% after 5+-2=.  Things get worse for Ld6 or less to start.  Do it right and you've got 3 units pretty much locked down unable to act.  - less likely to help vs the Primarchs - though picking Morty as you can see - Morty is a little more more than 50/50 likely able to keep going.  Typhus (and his big blob of Terminators) goes from about just under 75% to just over 40%. 1KSons gets it even worse, they'll lose out on their cabal points, be locked down, Rubric/Scarab Marines, Daemon Princes are also in bad shape. 

[Marshal Reinhard]

Carbines look cooler. Tacticool boltguns.

[Tacitus]

1 hour ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

Carbines look cooler. Tacticool boltguns.

But their ability is pretty much all about the fight phase/engagement range. 

[Orange Knight]

4 minutes ago, Tacitus said:

But their ability is pretty much all about the fight phase/engagement range. 

 

The bolt carbines are by far the best option for the unit. You get far superior shooting with precision, allowing you to snipe out a cheap character from a unit upon arriving from reserve. Their combat capabilities aren't vastly improved by using the combat blades, and the Sgt can retain his blade and also take a carbine.

 

The unit is best coming in turn 3/4 to harass depleted units and to steal objectives far from the deployment zone. You can still get into engagement range to further disrupt units if needed, but having a better ranged weapon to use whilst sitting on a stolen objective is the better plan.

[TheNicronomicon]

3 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

 

The bolt carbines are by far the best option for the unit. You get far superior shooting with precision, allowing you to snipe out a cheap character from a unit upon arriving from reserve. Their combat capabilities aren't vastly improved by using the combat blades, and the Sgt can retain his blade and also take a carbine.

 

The unit is best coming in turn 3/4 to harass depleted units and to steal objectives far from the deployment zone. You can still get into engagement range to further disrupt units if needed, but having a better ranged weapon to use whilst sitting on a stolen objective is the better plan.

And the Phobos LT makes them so much better—lethal hits, plus moving after shooting. (Hilariously SW couldn’t use this unit to complete a Saga since the only Character in the unit is also the only model who DOESN’T have Precision!) You can really slink from cover to cover, firing all the way. Pop out, plink off an enemy unit leader, duck back into cover. Then swing in when they’re weak, battle shock them, and take the objective.

[Sea Creature]

Black Templars can take witch seeker rounds for the Lt which gives precision vs psychic chads and can inflict MWs.