Thoughts on NOVA Open 2023 marine reveals

[unrealchamp88]

I have a few thoughts on some of the new kits revealed at NOVA 2023, so thought i'd share them. Some of this can be considered wishlisting or wishful thinking, some i think is reasonable questions/suggestions  for these kits.

 

Sternguard - I'd like to see some more variety for the combi-weapons, even something as simple as 'Anti-vehicle', 'Anti-monster' options and even a bump to the BS for such profiles or simply 2 attacks flat. I hope we see some more special/heavy weapon options like old sternguard had, even if its using gear from the Primaris line (the pyrecannon seems somewhat indicative).

As a personal idea, i think being able to give the squad 'chainsword/power weapon' options would be a nice touch. They are Astartes veterans afterall and would have access to such things but having access to PF/TH & SS would be too far and step on Vanguard vets toes. Perhaps make players choose between the aforementioned 'special/heavy' options or some greater melee capability.

 

Command Squad - Personally hope for some broad choice of wargear. Those tasked with protecting an Astartes Captain would rightfully have full armour access and shouldn't skimp.

I wonder if by having a Captain in such a unit will grant some large aura/army bonus? The idea of a Command Squad/Bodyguard is to allow the Commander to concentrate on the wider strategic picture and the rules should reflect this fact, otherwise there is no difference between this and any other unit a HQ joins.

 

Terminators - I wonder if we'll see a broadening of wargear for the MPK terminators? Simply giving them the same options seems...underwhelming, but also having more options in the new kit would be a stronger sales pitch, lets say (and we know sales is the main driver of rules). Brand new melee options for the Sgt. (whose PS is questionable now compared to the PF the rest of the squad use) and some new cannonry would be exclusive to the new MPK and thus make the more desirable.

 

I like the other reveals btw, though have no strong opinions. Nice new upscaled and HD sculpts are welcome, some are stronger looking than others but we can all find ways of building upon and kitbashing improvements to them.

 

appreciate your thoughts on mine. Thanks in advance.

[MadGreek]

Agreed. Hope the MPK Termies are going to lead to Assault Termies in the near future. Also really like the Termie Chappy.  Seems like you can kit him out to be with a shooty or assaulty squad, so come on GW.

 

Was hoping the Command Squad would have an Apothecary, but that's just a minor quibble, as they DO look good.

 

As a BA player I was very happy to see Primaris Jump Troops and Captain.

[Galron]

Like I said on the other thread. I am glad jump pack assault troops made the cut. Now I will be able to use the plethora of standard jump pack assault troops I already own like most people will likely end up doing.

[Evil Eye]

Sternguard are fine. They're honestly nice sculpts, but they do fall a bit into the pitfall of "Why did these NEED to be Primaris?".

 

Terminators are all great. Chaplain isn't quite as good as the classic metal sculpt but still looks very nice.

 

Assault Marines, eh. Those jump packs look really odd, I don't like them at all. Same for the jump pack Captain. Honestly if they'd gone with a more classic jump pack design I could have been a bit more generous to them but as is, bah.

 

The Scouts actually look good! Helps that the old ones were quite rough and that these aren't needlessly Primarised.

 

The Company Heroes are genuinely nice looking, but once again the fact they've just straight-up replaced the original command squad does annoy me.

 

Overall not an awful showing even if I am getting thoroughly sick of the Great Replacement of classic Marines.

[Blindhamster]

The reason they "had" to be primaris is probably because that's the direction GW is going because they want to. I.e. they didn't have to, but its the strategic decision GW made. That said, so long as your existing models still work for the units, its not really a problem one way or another if they're in mkX or not surely? It's just new renditions of units - much like earlier editions. They just happen to have changed the armour mk but unlike some other releases, these seem to do a good job of not invaldiating what people may already have*

 

The scouts do have various details that align them with the mkX/primaris stuff, the chest design is very much inline with them (lacks the pectorals, but has the vent holes that all mkX consistently has), the back of their armour has the round power cell thing like mkX backpacks, they have new style bolt pistols too. Their abdomen plates are identical in style too. The bolt guns are 100% classic boltguns though. Only reason I point it out, is because they've clearly been designed to look "right" by the other newer kits, but they also wont look out of place beside the older ones either.

 

*for the most part, some options are definitely still lost, but that isn't necessarilly linked to being mkX/primaris or not, as we see that happen across editions anyway.

[Captain Idaho]

I think the feelings towards the reveals are rather muted simply because they're multi-part kits of what we already got. Terminators and Sternguard are a necessary kit, but it's a yeah sure moment.

 

Scouts... they're good but again they're just Scouts.

 

Assault Marines look alright but again, everyone knew they were coming and they're leaning pretty heavily to the side right now!

 

Command squad looks cool, but again they're just repackaged concepts in a squad format. Company Champion and Ancients exist already, after all.

 

I dunno. Doesn't seem to be much buzz on these items. Maybe there's some fatigue over constant Space Marine releases?

 

Personally I like Marine units that are more "traditional" than Desolators, anything Phobos etc so I think the release is pretty good. Means existing Firstborn units can be count as for command squads and Assault Intercessors, though the former can't get into a Rhino unfortunately. 

[Sir Clausel]

I really like all the new stuff. Sure we knew pretty much all of it was coming but that doesnt change for me at least that is cool models. 

I really like the jumppack(gotta have 2 boxes of them) guys but not sold that much on the captain. But its mostly just the pose but im sure i can figure something out.

The command squad and sternguards are both awesome. The sternguard sgt pose is rather boring though but agian i can probably figure something out. 

The terminators are just plain cool. I really like them and gotta have a box of them. Cant wait for the assault variants. 

The scouts for me are pretty meh because i dont really like scouts. But i know for sure thats a certain Marshall here thats a happy guy now :p

[Minsc]

Personally I am a bit disappointed.

 

I was hoping for actually new units (like a new Gravis-unit for instance), but all I got was updates/resculpts of already existing units. (Jump A.Intercessors are "new" but they're essentially a resculpt/"reprimarisation" of the Assault Marines which are about to get discontinued.)

 

Nothing "wrong" with the reveals: they where expected and most of the models look great to boot, but I wont be getting any of these boxes because I already have more or less eveything via the leviathan boxes or prior. If I hadn't already then I'd probably been more happy with the release, but as it currently is, the promised "big reveal" amounts to absolutely nothing for me. At least my wallet will be happy...

 

Also, where are my new Assault Terminators GW? 

[Marshal Reinhard]

1 hour ago, Blindhamster said:

The reason they "had" to be primaris is probably because that's the direction GW is going because they want to. I.e. they didn't have to, but its the strategic decision GW made. That said, so long as your existing models still work for the units, its not really a problem one way or another if they're in mkX or not surely? It's just new renditions of units - much like earlier editions. They just happen to have changed the armour mk but unlike some other releases, these seem to do a good job of not invaldiating what people may already have*

 

The scouts do have various details that align them with the mkX/primaris stuff, the chest design is very much inline with them (lacks the pectorals, but has the vent holes that all mkX consistently has), the back of their armour has the round power cell thing like mkX backpacks, they have new style bolt pistols too. Their abdomen plates are identical in style too. The bolt guns are 100% classic boltguns though. Only reason I point it out, is because they've clearly been designed to look "right" by the other newer kits, but they also wont look out of place beside the older ones either.

 

*for the most part, some options are definitely still lost, but that isn't necessarilly linked to being mkX/primaris or not, as we see that happen across editions anyway.

Scouts are pretty much entirely in line with the bt primaris neophytes.  Save the boltgun. But I got spare neophyte carbines. Oh sorry "neophyte firearms" :p

[Blindhamster]

Yeah I’m going to use neophyte bodies as sergeants lol

[Sea Creature]

Geedub is doing a fantastic job fleshing out the Primaris range.

[Helias_Tancred]

Overall I was happy with what I saw. Right now I'm focusing on my Dark Angels in 10th. That being said I'm hesitant to buy into any of these kits given several things. First off (when it comes to a "Command Squad") I already have a DA kit-bashed Ancient, and a DA kit-bashed primaris company champion, and I wasn't very impressed with the other models in that command squad. Secondly with the big Dark Angel range reset coming in early Spring I don't want to lay down some serious primaris model/character cash now, only to do the same thing with arguably cooler looking models/options in a few more months? I already have a company master from using the Lazarus kit, and one in gravis armor with some DA kit-bashing from the recent Captain in Gravis Armor. I do however love that new ancient! Depending on his parts and how he is built, he may have tremendous kit-bash potential for a whole slew of personalized characters?

 

Terminator kit, love it, but once again what will be coming out in early Spring for Deathwing? A new kit? A nice Deathwing upgrade sprue?

 

Sternguard? Love it. I already DA kit-bashed the current Leviathan Sternguard squad. Not sure I want to repeat that with the same old bits with this new one? May hold off to see what comes out in early Spring, and then say pick up a new DA upgrade kit AND that new sternguard kit!

 

Scouts? lol that is the only ones I see myself buying when they come out, and thats really dependent on if they, through their rules, have a role that I need in my current Dark Angel collection?

 

I love that Dark Angel Master they used as an example! Love the power fist that is pointing. But my current DA Mk X power armored Master is nice looking (built with Lazarus) and carries the same load out; plasma pistol and power fist. I don't need a new Mk X power armor Master atm.

 

Jump pack assault intercessors? Love them. Thats a buy! 

 

In summary: So maybe there are one or two definite "buy now" for me, but honestly I'm going to hold off buying most, if not all, of it until after the Dark Angel range refresh goes live and I can see what all I have to work with? No sense in spending a small fortune twice within 6 months when what I have now looks great and works fine? If I were focusing on my Blood Angels right now, heck yeah I'd be dropping some cash on those kits when they come out! For most marine players getting those new kits is a no-brainer, but for Dark Angel players it is not that simple. 

 

ps. Given that the terminator Chaplain can be geared with a storm shield, that is all you need to know if they're doing assault terminators in the future. They definitely are!

 

Edited August 31, 2023 by Eilio Tiberius

[Stargate_wars]

I just hope that all Primaris characters in Tacticus have the remaining Firstborn units listed on them as for example Deathwatch would only have Watch Masters and Artemis for DW Veterans and Proteus KTs if not.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Stargate_wars

[Ramell]

I'm glad we're finally getting a proper assault squad for primaris, as well as a command squad. Both are long overdue.

And updated, multi-part Terminators, Sternguard and Scouts? Brilliant. More captain models and a Terminator chaplain is wonderful too. 

I look forward to seeing the sprue pics and the rules for loadouts, and to get my hands on that wonderful grey goodness (that will totally get painted at some point, totally).

[jaxom]

7 hours ago, MadGreek said:

Agreed. Hope the MPK Termies are going to lead to Assault Termies in the near future. Also really like the Termie Chappy.  Seems like you can kit him out to be with a shooty or assaulty squad, so come on GW.

 

Was hoping the Command Squad would have an Apothecary, but that's just a minor quibble, as they DO look good.

 

I'm wondering if they're saving Assault Terminators as a release alongside a Chapter-specific codex. The Apothecary has been available as a stand alone for a while while Company Veterans, Ancient, and Captain have only been available in bundle packages (Dark Imperium, Hachette, etc) and special releases (Store Anniversaries). I just want to know if the Ancient is no longer going to be his own data slate, or if all these models will share a data slate because they come in the same kit.

 

3 hours ago, Minsc said:

I was hoping for actually new units (like a new Gravis-unit for instance), but all I got was updates/resculpts of already existing units. (Jump A.Intercessors are "new" but they're essentially a resculpt/"reprimarisation" of the Assault Marines which are about to get discontinued.)

I completely understand. I think that until GW culls more of the Marine bloat, it's unlikely we'll get completely new units. 

[Helias_Tancred]

I could see them releasing an Assault Terminator kit the same time they release a new Deathwing Terminator Kit in early Spring.  Also I could see a Darnath Lysander primaris version, as well as Belial which is most likely planned?

 

[Paladin777]

The thing that has me most intrigued is the fact that they didn't call out the Jump captain as 'primaris.' They just called him a 'Captain with Jump Pack.' 
 

It makes me wonder if the firstborn/primaris divide, as far as characters go, might be going away. 
 

Sure 2 of my 3 jump captains would have illegal loadouts (TH/PP on one, TLC's on the other), but that can be changed easy enough, and it would be nice to run some of my many firstborn characters with primaris units!

Edited August 31, 2023 by Paladin777

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

3 hours ago, jaxom said:

 

I'm wondering if they're saving Assault Terminators as a release alongside a Chapter-specific codex. The Apothecary has been available as a stand alone for a while while Company Veterans, Ancient, and Captain have only been available in bundle packages (Dark Imperium, Hachette, etc) and special releases (Store Anniversaries).

 

There's been a standalone Tacticus Captain for over six years now:

 

 

3 hours ago, jaxom said:

 I just want to know if the Ancient is no longer going to be his own data slate, or if all these models will share a data slate because they come in the same kit.

 

...AND there's also a standalone Ancient. Has been since January of last year. So probably not:

 

Edited September 1, 2023 by Lord Nord

[jaxom]

Wow, those completely flew under my radar.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Backbanner makes me happy.

new ancient looks great.

new fly bois for my BA is nice.

new termy chappy looks nice.

 

scouts…a little meh for me…idk why but I’d have like something a little bit different, not sure what though

[Tacitus]

The scout reveal is a head scratcher.  Why remove them in the first place for a new kit?  Will they retain the option for all snipers, or was the implication of snipers switching to a HB/ML or single sniper more intended than I think? 

 

The Command squad is somewhat the same thing - why remove the old one for a new kit? Give it the Sternguard treatment, and be done.  Especially don't remove the Apothecary from the mix.   Make em 6, 2 Vets, Champ, Ancient, and Apothecary around a Captain. 

[Knightsword]

I'm both happy and a bit disappointed with the reveals.

 

On the one hand I love all the revealed models, especially the command squad and the Ancient in particular. On the other, I wish it was actual new units as others have stated. Personally I wouldn't have called revealing the MPK versions of the Leviathan kits "new" units. A new Gravis unit or Terminator Ancient would have been nice.

 

The Scouts and Chaplain were a nice surprise and I really like the Scout models. My interpretation is that the sniper rifle is now a single heavy weapon type choice, as the full sniper squad competed with the Eliminators in the same role. The Chaplain's model could have been better and I do think the existing one was better (i'll probably try and get bits from the old one and bash it with the new).

 

Anyone else think the Leviathan Terminator Captain looks better than the MPK one? It also reads like the MPK Terminator Captain won't have a thunder hammer in the box.

[Captain Idaho]

GW have created a problem that Marines players expect all new entities I think. It's unsustainable especially in the face of faction bloat.

 

They could really help ease the reactions of the community if they communicated more on their plans medium and long term.

[Lysimachus]

21 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

Means existing Firstborn units can be count as for command squads and Assault Intercessors, though the former can't get into a Rhino unfortunately. 

 

Interesting thought. If you put a Firstborn Command Squad in a Rhino, would anyone care very much if you counted it as the new Command Squad in an Impulsor? Now the hover tanks don't have Fly keyword, there isn't a huge difference in their datasheets?

 

In fact, I could see by next edition, Rhinos and Preds getting retired, but you could counts-as the minis as Impulsors and Gladiators if you wanted to use them? Would fit with the pattern we've seen so far in 10th.

[Captain Idaho]

Could work. Only thing is a Predator with lascannon sponsors and autocannon counts as what exactly?

 

Casual games it could work. I'd find it somewhat hollow as time went on personally though.